Microsoft is trying to convince Windows 10 users to upgrade with full-screen prompts
(www.theverge.com)
from MazonnaCara89@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.ml on 11 Apr 2024 21:03
https://lemmy.ml/post/14340190
from MazonnaCara89@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.ml on 11 Apr 2024 21:03
https://lemmy.ml/post/14340190
#technology
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This is the best summary I could come up with:
Reddit user Woopinah9 spotted a notification “while in the middle of working,” where Microsoft thanks Windows 10 “customers” for their loyalty with a full-screen message and then explains the end of support date.
“Your PC is not eligible to upgrade to Windows 11, but it will continue to receive Windows 10 fixes and security updates until support ends on October 14th, 2025,” reads Microsoft’s message.
The options to dismiss the full-screen interruption include “learn more” and “remind me later” buttons, which suggests that this prompt might appear more than once.
Surprisingly, Microsoft’s full-screen prompt doesn’t directly mention that consumers will be able to continue securely using the operating system beyond October 14th, 2025, if they’re willing to pay.
Microsoft revealed last week that it will cost businesses $61 per device for the first year of Extended Security Updates (ESU) for Windows 10.
Hopefully, non-business users of Windows 10 will get similar discounts, but Microsoft says it will share details “at a later date.”
The original article contains 528 words, the summary contains 163 words. Saved 69%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
I guess I’ll have to pirate security updates at some point, huh?
How long will we be able to use 10 after EOL? Would companies immediately stop updating their apps?
As long as you want, assuming that you’re fine with the security risks and everything that’s rendered incompatible in the future.
To be honest, Windows 7 is best Windows for me but no existing applications can be used on it. So I hope I can use Windows 10 until game compatibility on Linux passes the threshold I’m looking for :)
What threshold are you looking for and when was the last time you tried it? I don’t even think about it anymore.
if you're running a single instance of a game it's already there. (I multibox so fuck me I guess)
if you're waiting for native support it's a chicken and egg scenario, your best bet is to switch asap and show developers there's a market.
Depending on your game preference it may be already there in some aspects
Basically it depends on the kind of anticheat the game has
I’ve seen POS systems in local burrito shops still running Windows 7… native, not a VM…
I saw a bottle return machine running Windows 98.
I worked in a company which ran everything down to MS-DOS
Two years ago I quit a company that was using a database (with sensitive user PII like social security numbers in the db) accessible via unencrypted TELNET. Not SSH, TELNET. I’m not fucking shitting you.
I worked there for one week and was like “fuuuuuuuuuuck this” and lied and said I had a better offer and tendered my resignation. I wasn’t part of the IT department and I wasn’t going to go down for an incompetent IT department.
Yup. Currently working at a company that has machines still running ms-dos due to them being critical and still working fine.
Well they’re fine until you can’t find replacement parts on Ebay anymore.
The voip call manager in my last shop was running off win95.
Don’t a lot of gas pumps still run on MS-DOS?
We? I think most of us are not using Windows 10. Or Windows 11. Or Windows.
Are they spamming people with this on computers they know don’t meet system requirements?
You better believe they are. I get it about every other month, and my laptop doesn’t meet those requirements.
Did you read the article? The popup warns users about it, yes. It's a good thing to let them know there won't be more security updates for their OS.
And 90% of home windows user don’t give a damn.
How is that Microsoft's fault? Should they be forcing users to care, somehow? The warning is already getting people angry as it is.
People don’t care and they see any pop-up it’s an annoyance and they immediately close it. I once had a student ask why is wasnt allowing her to download something. I asked her to show me what she was doing…as soon as the security warning for “do you want to save or cancel the file?” And then complain that it was broken.
I can see your point. Warning the user once is probably enough.
You would be amazed.
At work we provide popup notifications for a week when a users password is close to expiring
They still miss it and need to call helpdesk
I turned off secure boot and didn’t get any popups for windows 11 ever
You might at some point, you don’t actually need secure boot turned on for Windows 11 your PC just needs to be capable of secure boot and use UEFI mode rather than legacy boot
Well that isn’t good. I hope I can get by with Linux
You think the average Windows user cares about security or updates? I’ve worked in IT for over a decade and I can tell you that the average person doesn’t give a damn.
Yup.
they do care about money.
Doing nothing is a very real probability. PCs have very real competition as well. Buying a cheap Apple air is now a great alternative to Microsoft Windows for people scared of linux. M3 processor is great and the devices cheap.
1300-2000 €. They wouldn’t be cheap if you cut off a digit from the price.
I ownder if its a tactic to get people, or mainly businesses to upgrade no so they are still in the windows ecosystem. They won’t want to pay for windows, so making it seem like their computer is outdated and should be upgraded is not a bad strategy. If a movement of converting to Linux starts, many users might leave. For good.
It’s good except for the fact that Windows 11 is tied to a piece of hardware level security of supposedly nebulous benefit to your average home user. So tons of computers that would otherwise be fine are going to end up being entirely replaced and turned into e-waste instead because their motherboard doesn’t have a TMP chip on it.
But that’s an issue with Microsoft requiring TMP for Windows 11, not them telling people that they’re gonna stop getting stuff like security updates.
I wonder if there’s a debloated version of Windows 11 that removes the TPM requirement…
Regardless, I’m this | | close to switching to Linux; I just need to make sure I can get OneDrive and full MS Office running in Linux reliably, since I need both for work. The Steam Deck has convinced me that I don’t need Windows anymore for gaming, so it’s only work holding me back. (Work pays me a stipend to maintain my own work computer hardware, so I do work on “my” machine.)
Edit: Looks like it’s actually pretty easy to do.
If you are fine with the older office suite (2019 I believe), there is a codeweaver program called crossover. They are the teams that make WINE a reality and they have a one version license so you can own it forever. Or yeah, you can also use VM.
Nice, thanks! 2019 should be good enough; the guides I was looking at were suggesting much older versions for WINE compatibility.
I just need to look into OneDrive, now.
Yeah, that is if I remember it correctly. But I do remember installing a modern office suite back then using crossover. They also have trials so you can test your target program is indeed running as it should before buying.
I’m not a marketing person but maybe they should try making an OS people actually want.
They do this every 4-5 years. Nobody is ever bothered enough to cause a problem for Microsoft’s bottom line.
I don’t remember anyone being excited for a version of Windows since 7. 8 and 8.1 were universally hated, a lot of people clung to 7 until they absolutely had to upgrade to 10, and now they’re clinging to 10 as long as they can. I seriously doubt there’s an upcoming release of Windows people will genuinely like and want, because there’s no money in doing that.
Yeah, but even before that…people were only excited about 7 because of how much of a dumpster fire Vista was. And prior to XP (which Vista replaced), most people didn’t care about OS versions at all.
8.1 was fine imo, but not really worth an upgrade from 7 unless it was free.
Win10 with Classic Shell is good enough for me… Until I have to dig into the control panel and dick around with any network settings harder than “hurrr durrr SSID and password goes here”. Luckily Simple IP Config does all the heavy lifting for me on that front.
But hey, having to use third party utilities to make my OS usable is just The Microsoft Way at this point.
I have way less patience for it than you do; I bailed out a few weeks into owning a Windows 8.1 laptop. I’ve been a full time Linux user for 10 years now.
I wonder if no one in the head of such a big company wonders if the fact that an increasing amount of people not wanting to move to their newer versions means that they’re maybe, you know, just maybe, doing something that people don’t want?
They don’t care as long as their software is quasi-mandatory.
I was excited for 10. I had 8 on my college laptop
We need to wait for the next version, 12 or wherever. Every other Windows version is “good”
Yeah, it definitely has the Star Trek movie curse.
Each only in comparison to its predecessor, though. I still think Windows 7 was the last version to get out of its users’ way and just let them use their computer; everything since then has been worse than 7 in some subtle way.
They do. It’s called Windows 10 LTSC.
Why would they do that when people use this one all the same?
I have never received one of these screens with this One Neat Trick:
I disabled the TPM in UEFI settings.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.blahaj.zone/pictrs/image/0f34b125-baf9-4ec6-aa62-e08d3c2ab01a.png">
Beautiful.
Aww your poor wittle pc is unhealthy! It just needs some rest and some fluids.
It’s cool while it works. But these options are not going to be provided forever in newer hardware. Recent example I saw is the absense of AHCI option in new laptops (you now need additional drivers just to reinstall Windows manually). We need to keep developing software solutions to software problems.
This is the fucking way
Aren’t you using the TPM for full disk encryption, though? Or are you entering your BitLocker Password at every boot?
also windows 10 requires tpm for passkeys
I use full-disk encryption on my Debian, and I honestly don’t see what’s wrong with entering your passphrase on boot.
There doesn’t have to be anything wrong with it, though I seem to remember that BitLocker isn’t all that difficult to break if your passphrase isn’t long enough. I just found it a bit weird because unlocking via TPM very much feels like the standard solution under Windows.
Sounds like a good idea to disable a security feature to not be reminded of the EOL of the software you’re using /s
In the 90s this was hacker shit. You’d do this shit to, like, break into the pentagon or something.
Fucking cringe cyberpunk; everybody’s a hacker, because theres no other way to see your fucking calendar.
Oh it looks like your PC is not supported because you turned off single option in UEFI. Go to this link and buy your new Windows 11 PC today!
Aren’t these screens from the article specifically for unsupported devices, like those without TPM?
Is it not disgraceful that you have to use a trick so some third party company doesn’t install software you don’t want on your hardware? I think that’s appalling!
I see Linux in my future, as I just don’t have the cash for a new rig.
I have to be careful though, as it’s my family PC, and the rest of my family aren’t going to tolerate much of a learning curve. It really needs to just work out of the box.
Considering Zorin OS. Hopefully I can get it on my SSD next to Windows so I can dual-boot for a while to test the water…
You’d be better off installing Linux on another drive if you’re going to dual boot. Windows loves to mess with the EFI boot partition which ends up borking the Linux bootloader.
If your family does more than just browse the web, there’s definitely going to be a bit of a learning curve, it’s possible though. I converted my 73 year old father to Linux after he used Windows for 25 years.
Ah really? I could put it on the hard drive, but the whole point of the SSD was for it to take the OS… Will have to think on that.
They generally don’t do more than browse the web so I’m not anticipating any major issues. I used to game on it, but it’s so old now I’ve stopped using it for games.
Maybe I’ll put it on a usb for a while instead of dual booting.
I meant installing Linux itself on another drive, but having the EFI System Partition on another drive could work theoretically.
If you install the Linux bootloader on a separate partition from the Windows bootloader, then it’s trivial to repair it, but that might be a bit advanced for a basic user.
I have been wanting to make the switch to Linux myself, and have done a bit of research on which to try for a beginner coming from windows. However the dual boot dangers are worrying me a bit, I dont want to nuke my windows installation just yet and only test the waters.
I have an SSD with windows on it and another with most of my programs and files. Could I partition the latter for a Linux installation or would I risk windows messing with it anyway?
Installing Linux on a separate drive is probably a better bet. I’ll admit I didn’t have much trouble with it, but I dual booted Windows 8.1 with Linux, not 10, and my understanding is it has only gotten fuckier.
In either case you may wish to “test the waters” by installing and running Linux in a virtual machine or on a thumb drive at first, to take it for a test drive and see if you can live with it.
Yep, in fact, installing it on a different drive completely would probably be your safest bet 😉 Windows may still mess with it, but if it has its own EFI System Partition, it should hopefully leave the one for Linux alone.
Go with Pop! Pop! Is a great OS and has pretty much everything working right out of the box. Go with Gnome so that people understand they need to do things slightly different rather than trying to use a Linux machine like a Windows machine. Plus Gnome is just awesome. Hit the windows key, type the first couple letters of the program you want to open, hit enter, done! The Pop shop has almost everything an average user would need, so you can install things with the click of a button without having to search the Internet, and updates are a hands off affair.
Edit: since you’re not a Linux user I’ll clarify Gnome. Gnome is a desktop environment, and Pop is the actual operating system. In Linux you can change how your computer interface looks and works by choosing different desktop environments(DE). A variation of Gnome is the default DE for Pop, and it works great. KDE would be the DE most similar to Windows, but it has enough differences that it can frustrate Windows users. Gnome is completely different, so they’ll take the time to figure something out rather than just getting frustrated that it’s different. Besides, the learning curve on Gnome is basically zero. Just use the Windows key and start typing. It’s literally that simple.
I’ll counter that when I tried gnome it was so far it was frustrating while KDE took some adjustment but it worked like a de was supposed to work in my brain. And gnome wasn’t as easily customizable as kde
Yeah, no recommendation will work for everyone. My advice was just based on observation of new Linux users and the challenges I see them complaining about. I’m glad you found something that works for you.
Oh absolutely, I just wanted to share because some people will see that and think “if gnome is easier and I hated it then I shouldn’t bother with KDE”. Nah if you don’t like gnome try KDE or cinnamon. Everyone is different, that’s why there are multiple major des.
Go with Mint rather than Zorin.
I use Linux Mint on a bunch of my machines
In general it’s pretty painless
I still have a Windows machine but I’m hoping to fix that soon
Can Microsoft be any more annoying?
I had to laugh when I searched for “Vivaldi” in Edge on a new installation and Bing said “There’s no reason to switch to a new browser!”
There are tons of reasons. Their insistence that there are no reasons is a good example of a reason.
How about when you have to update your machine and it goes through the “setup” which is just disguised ads for services like microsoft 365? That’s pretty annoying.
Win 11 will eventually replace win 10, just as win10 replaced win7, they are just desperate to reach their target before releasing windows 12.
Windows 10 was the last Windows version for me. I’m done. I’m done with the spying, and the ads, and the hidden admin options spread across 5 different locations, and the registry, and the bugs, and the viruses, and just their whole shit show. Linux 4 lyfe.
It’s just the spying for me. If it wasn’t for the spying and ads then I’d still be a Windows die-hard. If my OS was just an OS then I wouldn’t feel the need to switch to Linux
Yeah, the other things are just annoyances. But the ads and the spying are deal breakers for me. They’re our fucking computers, not Microsoft’s! They’ve got a lot of fucking nerve thinking they can just shove ads into our native OS. That’s literally how adware, which is classified as malware, has been classified for all of Windows history. But now they’re doing it themselves? Get fucked, Satya!
You missed Windows 8, which never replaced Windows 7
Windows 12 is scheduled to release before Windows 10 goes EOL. At this point, those who haven’t switched are better off just waiting to see if 12 is decent or it’s shittier than 11. If it’s the latter, it might be time to finally ditch Windows on my gaming PC.
They have been doing this for at least a year now. They have one that tries to trick you into thinking that it was already updated and you have to finish setting it up. It takes several clicks on tiny hidden buttons to escape it. There’s no option to tell it to fuck off forever. They’ll pester you again a couple weeks later.
dark design or fraud design should be fineable.
Dark patterns were outlawed years ago, but the FTC has to enforce it. My guess is that Microsoft either designed it in such a way that it barely meets the requirements, or they figured it won’t matter because even if they get caught, the fine will be less than their savings/profit.
they don't bother me
probably because they would have to back down of pretending they require specific hardware I'm not going to buy.
I installed Atlas OS on my Windows 10 machine and I don’t get any of this shit.
What’s that like then
Just strips out most of the bullcrap that MS won’t let you uninstall.
So you’re running windows without system updates, without restore points, AND without windows defender?
That’s pretty daring raw dogging the internet like that
…I have all of that enabled.
When I looked into it the first thread I found about it mentioned that those were disabled
But looking back at it the thread was from a year ago
At the Office it’s my employers problem and at home Mint doesn’t give AF about Windows 11.
If epic didn’t suck ass and actually wanted to support EAC on Linux I already would have switched.
Epic will continue to suck ass and chances are that they will get even worse some day. Don’t let yourself be chained to Microsoft because of Epic. I know it’s hard to let beloved games go, but there are so many other titles of better companies than epic that deserve your attention.
It ain’t me. Its my wife lol. But you right.
My computer doesn’t meet the requirements so I guess I’ll just not.
Yeah new cpu and mobo is way down my list of important expenditures right now.
I’ll upgrade once Win11 is out of open beta. Almost once a week they patch in a bug that’s inconvincing users, I don’t have that issue with win10. I wish MS would spend that energy on bug fixing and QoL UI elements. Win11 has less taskbar options, you’d think they added them by now…
No small taskbar icons option was bothersome for me. Have to deal with it on my work PC. So much lost screen space 😭
Used W11 for the first time recently, the lack of small task bar buttons blew my mind. Decluttering the task bar is the first thing I do on a new computer.
This is in my top 10 reasons not to switch. You can make them small still via a registry edit, but then it messes up the date/time display.
Yeah I’d rather not be making regedits and of course can’t even do that on a work device.
I’ve blocked the Win11 upgrade on my work laptop via GPO, but I’m a sys eng, so have full control.
If Microsoft gifts me a mobo that supports their new tmp2 or whatever then I’ll switch, until then I’m sadly stuck on w10, oh the misery 🙃
Not me. I kill any process that pops up in task manager whenever i have to connect to the net. Some of them are annoyingly persistent but so far no full screen popups
That sounds exhausting
Also completely irrelevant and doesn’t do what he thinks he’s doing
I think it speeds up my boot process and even if it doesnt i do like killing bloaty apps
Lots of fun things are tiring
I took the free upgrade. Then after a bit I updated my bios and it killed my license. Microsoft wouldn’t fix it and said I changed my hardware so there was nothing they could do. Still pissed off about that.
Wow that’s fucking annoying Jesus
That’s crazy. Not a Microsoft fanboy, but I’ve had issues like that after an actual board swap and they still have made it right (and technically they were in the right to disallow it), and they’ve fixed issues with transferring around my retail license that I’ve had since like Windows 7 because by now it’s been activated a bunch of times. Enshittification.
There’s a mass grave way to get a new digital license from Microsoft 😉
Btw when I changed my motherboard and Windows deactivated, I called them and told them “it broke, then I replaced only the motherboard” (actually was an hardware upgrade) and they give the the phone activation codes. But that was during the Win7 era
massgrave.dev
Not creepy at all/s
I think now that I’ve moved most of my photo editing to my Mac and steam has propelled gaming on Linux into ‘very reasonable’ territory, it might be time to actually just ditch the ol’ windows. Only issue is I have an nvidia gpu atm unforch.
I’ve fully moved to Linux with a 3080ti. Only non functional feature is HDR but that’s mostly a Linux issue
I went with PopOs and have had a pretty smooth experience
vrr and tpm passkeys are also missing which is a bummer since i recently started using both and already used to them
Not an issue, been gaming with a 2080ti and 4090 for a while now, just works for me, including in VR on “Windows only” games.
Edit : link to a (strange) thread with a bit more detail lemmy.ml/comment/10195095 but the TL;DR being that NVIDIA drivers do work and ProtonDB literally “changed the game” during those very last years.
What’s new? This has been going on since the launch of W11.
I don’t even get why they care. Can’t you just inform users once, then drop support and still collect their data?
But there so much more data they could also be collecting. Think of the poor multi billion international company.
The cycle continues
Someone should let Microsoft know that they only have 18 months left to put out an OS that isn’t a complete dumpster fire. Right now, I would take Vista over 11.
If corporations would just end their love affair with exchange online and fucking outlook, maybe windows would go away
Well, what is the alternative? Google? I don’t think that is a good trade.
Just use NeXtCloUD
The reality is that there is no real alternative to the office suite including outlook. That is a real problem but just using Linux is not the answer.
Except for outlook, LibreOffice.
I work in finance, and the only time I use office is when my coworkers infrequently send me something locked in an Office document. Plenty of non-technical coworkers are addicted to it, but there’s no need, because it’s awful.
The Office programs are an ancient, bloated mess with an impossibly convoluted UI that to one uses more than a small share of.
The styles in Word and PowerPoint are never consistent: the bullets in lists never really match, fonts change randomly without reason, &c. These are intelligent people who have used this garbage for actual decades, and the WYSIWYG lie just results in a sloppy mess.
Even Microsoft wants everyone to stop using the desktop versions, and rent it from the cloud, which can be done from any OS.
For years, there was progress in moving governments away from implicitly endorsing Microsoft, and toward the simpler (but often still overcomplicated) OpenOffice/LibreOffice formats, and Microsoft engaged in some pretty shady behavior to stop it.
Markdown is better for documents, or maybe HTML, or LaTeX via LyX or something. Databases and legitimate file formats are better for data, with scripts for formulas. There are many simple alternatives around, but the addiction is so automatic and insidious, I can’t tell you how often over twenty years I’ve gotten screenshots pasted into an empty Word document rather than just sending the image.
why not?
A little less lock-in is literally a little bit better
If only they didn’t intentionally give up compatibility with 250 million PCs by introducing artificial CPU requirements, then adoption rate would be higher…
But blackrock and vanguard (they control ~15% of Microsoft, Intel, AMD) really needed to increase their profits by selling more CPUs…
Also it didn’t help that until October 2023 the taskbar was completely broken and unusable, people like me forbid the installation of the os in the company for that reason alone
What do you mean by the taskbar being unusable? I used it on my windows 11 laptop way before october 2023.
Combined icons make the computer unusable for who has multiple windows open from the same application.
For example if you constantly have to switch between 5 excel files you can’t directly click on which you need
It’s the reason I can’t stand MacOS at all
Well, you can’t directly click, but all you need to do is hover for half a second, then click the window you want (which open up above). It’s a non-issue.
Is the order always the same? But still, it’s quite human to be disturbed by it. A website that loads longer than 200ms is perceived as slow. 500ms on a desktop action is considered slow, so it is an issue for some. Can’t just dismiss it because for you it’s fine. Not everybody’s you.
Anti Commercial-AI license
I mean I didn’t check how long it actually takes, it’s not 500ms.
It opens quick, but I can’t find the default value (you can change the behavior via registry), but it’s definitely less than half a second. Especially when you’re already hovering down there it appears near instant for me.
And let’s be honest: The only reason why multiple icons worked back in the day was because the name of the open workbook was next to it. So you had “(Excel) My Workbook 123.xlsx” in your taskbar. Which ended up as a mess when you had several programs open. Now you have one Excel icon, you hover over it and you see all your open workbooks as a preview so you select the one you want. It’s definitely cleaner.
It keeps the order in which it was open, it’s not 500ms, and we can certainly dismiss someone that says something is unusable when it is in fact usable just not in the way they like.
Lol, OK grand master of all truth. May your word be our thoughts.
🤣
Anti Commercial-AI license
I mean, not defending Win11 here, it has lots of other issues, but I’d just put each excel sheet on a different virtual desktop and switch with the keyboard. Always felt that clicking was a bit inefficient anyway.
Sure, that’s not ideal, but it’s far from unusable. I’ve used the combined icons since windows 10 wqs released and never had any issues. It works fine for me.
You still can’t make it narrow or move it to the sides of the screen either. It sucks at work at 1080p because the taskbar takes up half the screen it’s so massive.
Lin…UX?!
I don’t mind upgrading but windows won’t allow me… MacOS looks not bad. Or linux
the taskbar still broken and unusable.
icons straight up disappear when you switch virtual desktops using the touchpad, tray icons sometimes don’t show up, messing with some things can cause an explorer crash
On my end, the icons disappearing happens sometimes when switching with the keyboard. Also, I happen to use full labels on the taskbar items (like on 95 to vista) and they’re all sorts of broken, especially when changing virtual desktops.
Also, despite having quite beefy hardware (Ryzen 9 + 4090), I can’t use an image as wallpaper (only a solid colour) otherwise changing virtual desktops has like a inexplicable 1 second lag after pressing the shortcut keys.
This is the kinda shit people would give up on Linux for.
This is what finally pushed me fully over the edge to Linux on my main PC. Nothing wrong with it but they just don’t like it.
Yeah, maybe a few delusional shit heads making insane decisions for absurd reasons completely insulated from reality by a thousand layers of abstraction isnt good and we should just count anything run this way as already dead?
Uhh, Vanguard and Blackrock are ETF providers, those stocks are assets under management
They don’t “control” anything about those companies.
I wish I wasn’t a vr gamer sometimes so I could unsubscribe from this os permanently
Quite curious, I’m a VR gamer (and developer) and so far I’ve just had no problem with Proton and SteamVR, including for officially non supported games.
I am too far into nvidia windows things. I run really extreme games with 4090 and tons of mods. Unreal, unity, blender all that stuff. If there is one thing that windows does okay it’s my use case.
I guess they have me right where they want 😂
Also I am not sure if virtual desktop works on Linux
I have 4090 and 2080ti setups running both games and AI models, Blender, etc on Linux so I’m not sure where the problem is there.
I’m not saying you should switch if you don’t want to, I’m only saying for my use cases it’s not only possible but wasn’t a problem and has been stable for years, both for gaming, in VR or not (was playing BG3 just an hour ago), and for 3D/XR work.
Cmon Linux NVidia drivers are garbage. You can’t possibly run everything to the same extent or performance. Not to mention ray tracing etc. Let’s not delude ourselves or try to peddle some fiction unnecessarily
Genuinely confused here, are you saying I didn’t play BG3, HL:A, etc on my Linux desktop and I just dreamt for last few years?
I am saying you played stuff that happened to run okay and not some other use cases where it struggles. I must probably take your word and pretend that it is true in some way even though everything I know about VR nvidia experience on Linux disagrees with your comment.
Bg3 or alyx is not a good example. Rather consider skyrimvr 1000 mods and cyberpunk pathtraced.
It’s just how it is when megacorp pours money into compatibility with one ecosystem and specifically refuses to provide support for another. It could work amazingly if they only had minuscule amount of goodwill
Don’t believe, check how countless others are doing it www.protondb.com I’m not sure where your experience comes from and that’s a shame it’s been a negative one (and I won’t dig into why, e.g how you did try and when), it just hasn’t been mine.
PS : I wouldn’t consider a game with 1000 mods a “normal” gaming experience. It sounds like it’s yours, and that’s perfectly fine, but I don’t believe this to be representative.
My use case is extreme as I stated before I think? I thought 4090 is enough indication of extreme tbh and that you wouldn’t want to run 3/4 supported Linux with a card like this.
I am definitely not an average gamer. There is nothing average about 4090 and VR. Not to mention elaborate expensive router setup for wireless VR.
Except that’s my point though, I even started with that… I do have a 4090 also and use it to play VR on Linux. That part IS a “normal” experience. It’s the 1000mods that isn’t. To clarify I mention BG3 and HLA only because it’s AAA. I also play indie VR games on Linux and they “just work”. One of them being built by a friend who was even positively shocked to learn that.
I brought ProtonDB up in the previous post, is that due to the SteamDeck running Linux (but on AMD, not NVIDIA) there has been a huge effort on Valve’s part to make the compatibility layer “just work” so the experience a gamer had with Linux just few years ago is not the same as today.
Another source beside ProtonDB tomshardware.com/…/three-gaming-focused-linux-ope… even though I find benchmarks to be a bit artificial at least not my opinion against another.
I don’t know what’s your point honestly. Great if you have fun then that’s cool.
I just like to use the best tool for the job at hand and that happens to be windows in this case.
In YOUR case, my point is precisely that you please don’t discourage others who might want to use Linux to play, including in VR, including on high end hardware, to have outdated beliefs.
I don’t really subscribe to any belief system or ideology based software choice. I guess feel free to round the rough edges as you preach your favourite software. We are all a little biased on the best days
Not sure what to say… you’re the one who said “I wish I wasn’t a vr gamer sometimes so I could unsubscribe from this os permanently” then I should you its possible then you try to argue with me it’s not. It’s weird. Stopping now as I don’t think it’s productive for either of us, take care.
Alternative for those which want to use still Windows, but without all its crap and spyings
windowsxlite.com
you should NEVER use “builds” like that.
All you need is available via GPO, also you MUST use Enterprise edition in order to turn the telemetry down to “Security”, all other builds can only go down to “Required”
No, I currently have all telemetry and other crap disabled on W10 22H2 Home without any problems. I need to use Windows for several reasons and because of this debloat it was the first thing in the new PC. Anyway in the future I’ll use it in dualboot, maybe with Mint or Q4OS
you physically cannot do it, the option is just ignored unless you have enterprise. best you can do is block by ip
Got to say they convinced me at last and I finally upgraded.
…to linux
Never.Going.Back.
Yep. The other day it rewrote a registry key that prevented these pop ups. I’m out. Debating which Debian distro to go to now.
Debian 12 itself isn’t bad
I tried a few, Fedora, LMDE(Linux Mint Debian Edition), and EndeavourOS.
I’d say LMDE if you want a rock solid system, being fundamentally Debian Stable with Mint treatment for user friendliness, or Endeavour if you want bleeding edge updates (and of course bragging rights to join the meme by saying “BTW I use arch”)
I gotta say, I’ve distro hopped a lot over the years…finally caved to try EndeavorOS and it’s my new favorite, if only for the AUR.
Same! I started with Ubuntu back in the days and was shocked how weirdly bad it is nowadays when I was forced to use it at my current project with the client’s laptop. I mean the happy path is still all fun and easy but after having Ubuntu installed, it’s almost like a Windows experience trying to get stuff installed vs. having AUR available :D
Debian is the slow reliable. Go with mint for easy, Debian for completely foss, pop! OS for eaay nvidia drivers, or Ubuntu for… Uh… Ubuntu.
Ubuntu is good for if you want Snap packages forced on you. It is a shame, Ubuntu was my first distro, but I don’t think I would ever use it again.
I recommend OpenSuse Tumbleweed if you want stuff to be very up to date (we got the xz backdoor first! yay!) but also easy and stable. And KDE Plasma is pretty good these days. Linux Mint is also good but it’s a bit slower with the updates.
This is what drove me away. There are like 7 people that figured out how to make these pop-ups disappear and Microsoft invested money to “patch” that “error” to ensure they were forced to continue seeing these ads.
I like Mint
I like mint. Everyone says it beginner friendly, like in a bad way, but stuff just working sounds good to me.
Yea I installed it for my wife and she never has to second guess anything, she knows where to find what she’s looking for and whatever it is, it just works. It’s weird that this feels almost off, right ? stuff “just working”
I have to give huge thank you to Valve for making gaming on Linux actually a valid option. I’ve been mainly a Linux user since 2006 but always had to have a dual-boot setup for gaming. Seeing the progress on Proton, I decided a year or two ago that Windows 10 was going to be the last one I’ll have on my PC and since my SSD died a couple of months ago, I didn’t even bother to preserve the Win10 installation anymore.
Funnily enough on my front page, the next link below this post was “Microsoft starts testing ads in the Windows 11 Start Menu”. I think that pretty much sums it up why I don’t want to even try to mess with the thing anymore. It’s been a good run and Windows has improved A LOT since XP days but oh dear god all the data harvesting nowadays…
yet again
At least in the EU until now no such PopUps, but it’s hilarious, that I can’t update to W11 in a 3 years old Laptop, at least not without cheats, only because my Graphic Card, AMD Radeon with 2+1 GB isn’t in the MS list, not for other reasons.
<img alt="" src="https://file.coffee/u/qNClyF-5t23J7m4RUdYlY.png">
I’m in the EU and yesterday I booted in Windows 10 and I got one :(
At least not in my, maybe I’ve gut Windows from all telemetries, notifications (except for updates) and other crap and services. If the Pop Ups persists, install the Optimizer (FOSS), which can help you to give it a kick in the ass.
github.com/hellzerg/optimizer
Thanks!
They’ll be lucky if I boot my Windows 10 partition between now and 18 months.
I almost did the other day. But then I found out that someone made a Flatpak of MakeMKV, so I didn’t need to.
I would gladly upgrade to W11 if MS just let me on my old hardware (which is still fast enough for my daily tasks)
I see they’re getting desperate. One year and half to eol, and still, according to statcounter, 69% of the world uses windows 10.
…nice
I would have upgraded if they didn’t include the UI changes. I don’t know why Microsoft keeps trying to make these big UI changes given that they have a built-in audience of power users that have optimized since XP.
I think it’s a way to justify the update. It’s probably really about telemetry and hardware control, but normies see the centered taskbar and subconciously go “this must be new technology”
“We tried asking. We tried begging. We tried bullying. We even tried tricking people into upgrading. We tried everything short of actually making a usable OS!”
“Please people, please… just give us your money. We might leave you alone after that. For a while.”
I understand how it is possible for an OS to interrupt one’s use of one’s own computer to beg for money or to install spyware. I don’t understand how such an OS would still have users.
If I didn’t have to use it for work, and if Ableton Live made a Linux version, I’d never use Windows again. Every single activity is interrupted by messages that are effectively adverts for things you’re not interested in. The Start menu still doesn’t work after 29 years of development. Searching for a file is ridiculously slow and doesn’t find the file. Everything else is also slow, all the time. I have given up trying to arrange my desktop icons because they always go back to the same position they’ve been stuck in for months. All the applications hang, and the whole system has frequent unresponsive moments where God knows what it’s doing but it’s nothing I asked for. I dual boot into Linux and it feels like an oasis of peace.
Oh yeah, sorry, didn’t mean to rag on people that have to work with it. I think we’re all frustrated that it’s still so pervasive even though it gets worse every year.
Check out “everything” for windows, it finds files, all files, instantly. And it’s free.
If I worked at Microsoft, on windows, I’d be so ashamed I wouldn’t tell.
I use Everything. It is a thousand times more useful than Windows’s file search, even though it only indexes filenames, not file contents.
Surely more AI will fix it!
Installed Zorin OS the same day I got the full-screen prompt.
The latest Zorin is slick. Love it.
Pretty much the only thing I use my PC for is gaming so it really sucks that I can’t just dump them for Linux…
I don’t want some games. I don’t want to have something I’ve been hyped about be out of reach for God knows how long just because Linux support is crap as the market share is so low, but man do i hate Microsoft…
Beside we-know-which games that use a root-kit anti-cheat, which games you think doesn’t work on Linux or work terribly or straight out not work on Linux on first-day?
I don’t play those and I don’t own them on Steam. Out of 600+ games I own on Steam, everything literally run without me touch my terminal once.
Unless you don’t think proton is good, then you might be mistaken somewhere. It’s straight magic
To be honest I just see people commenting here and there that xyz game didn’t work for them and they have to jump through a bunch of hoops for what does work that I just write Linux off for now.
That and I tend to like to check out early access games (cough star citizen cough) so I just dont want to limit myself just to give Mi€ro$oft the finger.
Also, (see early access comment) I’m kind of impatient so even though I’m pretty capable, the last thing I want to do is have to be an IT guy for my PC every time something doesn’t work lol windows is pretty good in that respect.
Suggestion: dual boot. Use Linux unless some game you want to play doesn’t work (yet).
Some Lego games.
Because of proton it’s not perfect but it’s damn close these days. And that means that linux support is rapidly increasing with linux marketshare. And when all else fails, I keep a windows partition just in case
Gaming on Linux is really not as bad as all that unless you play a lot of games with invasive anti-cheat; which honestly, even if you never try Linux and stick to windows, I’d recommend avoiding or at least having a separate windows install for. I’m not a fan of having to install a rootkit on my computer that constantly monitors everything I do just to prove to some mega-corp I’m an honest player (especially considering how poorly even those work to stop cheaters).
I’d highly recommend anyone upset with microsoft to at least setup dual boot with one of the popular gaming specific Linux distos and trying it out. Even if you did a few years ago, it has really come a long way in the last few years.
I love The Dark Mod, a great envolving game at the level of commercial ones, it’s 100% free with a great community and works fine in Windows, Linux and Mac. A game for Years with currently more than 170 community made missions, more every few month.
Windows 10 keeps turning that stupid news feed back on on my taskbar, too.
This helps with all that bs majorgeeks.com/…/block_windows_11_from_installing…
I’m used to hearing about how a lot of people are put off of Lemmy because of all the “Linux” people on it, “people pushing Linux”, “elitists”, etc.
And yet I see something like this and think “are we not supposed to give good advice?”.
If is the kind of thing you want for your computing then go for it.
I think it’s mostly that it comes across more like religious proselytizing than “good advice”.
Also, that “advice” is mixed in with just as much messaging about how fussy it can be and implications that you’ve got to basically be an enthusiast level user to make it work for you. Not that it necessarily is that way, but overall that’s the messaging I see from this community.
As someone who tried Linux many years ago, disliked it, and went back to Windows, generally my take is that Windows is far from perfect, but it’s the best option for me, and I’m happy to try and ignore the Lemmy buzz around it…but that buzz just gets more and more annoying over time.
Take it on good faith that I won’t bible beat you. I’m genuinely curious. What are things about windows that are ‘far from perfect’ as you put it? What would you do to change them, and if you could wave a magic wand and change whatever you want, what would you change?
On self-reflection I’ll admit that there’s a bias experienced by people, like me, who live in the Linux bubble, surrounded by people who are happy Linux users, to overestimate the eagerness of other people to be on board. It’s also easy to forget when you’re on a general Technology community like this one, where a lot of people are talking about Linux, that it’s not everyone is a Linux person.
In fact I don’t even really detect much of a “Lemmy buzz” around it mainly because I participated in Linux-y parts of Reddit, and other places, before now. If anything from my point of view there seems to be more resistance to it on Lemmy.
It could be that having used it for nearly 20 years I’ve lost my ability to fathom why it would be difficult. But that said, both my parents use Linux and are non-technical users - they were fed up with windows crap like in OP so they asked me to set it up for them and it’s been 5 years now trouble free. So even if you do need to be an enthusiast-level user to make it work, you only have to know one. What I still stand by is that it’s good advice for most users.
It’s unsolicited advice.
It would be like you posting about a minor annoyance with Minecraft, and then having multiple people tell you to ditch it and play Minetest instead.
That’s not an apt comparison
I don’t know anything about Minecraft but if Minetest is an appropriate replacement without that minor annoyance I would suggest that’s solicited advice.
They could convince me to update by making windows 11 not suck.
By reworking windows 7 to work with new hardware
God I’d cry if I could get windows 7 supported again
You could probably install linux bare metal on your computer, and daily drive windows 7 in a vm. Good luck getting compatible software anymore, but if you can, create an image and you are set for the foreseeable future
Actually not a bad idea. A lot of games I play actually run better on 7 than on 10.
Or I could reskin mint to be Windows Aero
Every pop up just convinced me to switch to Linux lol
Same. My next build will be Linux. Just distro shopping right now.
Haha felt that. I jumped from distro to distro constantly then finally settled in fedora after trying it a 2nd time
Upgrade to Linux! :D
That’s what i did and with very few issues (especially compared to what i had with Windows) I’ve not regretted it at all
Well sadly my laptop is not supported for update 🤷
I’ll wait for it to day and get a proper Linux supported device:)
Till then, I’ll fly my w10
IMO it’s their loss.
What exactly is not supported on linux?
If it is like mine, it’s the update itself. It says something like hardware not supported and gives you a big ol’ Fuck You
Wicked processor freezing while switching into power saving (idle cpu-modes) modes, workes fine if I disable these, but then it’s always on full power
Have tried a lot, is a pain
What’s wrong with Windows 10?
The ads
The desperation. UPGRADE TO 11. ALSO USE BING. AND EDGE. COPILOT TOO PLS.
This might be a bit off topic but I hate how you can’t dismiss these kind of messages and be done with them, instead you have confirmation or remind me later. They just keep pestering you and I find that insulting. The same thing with Google play pass whenever I install something, that damn popup keeps coming back.