Does Anyone Use their Phone without a SIM Card?
from freedickpics@lemmy.ml to privacy@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 05:04
https://lemmy.ml/post/40009966

This is something I’ve been thinking about for a while. I’ve decided to get a Pixel with GrapheneOS as my next phone and I’m trying to decide the pros and cons of putting a SIM card in it. Convenience vs privacy, public wifi with a VPN vs using phone data, etc.

I can’t get a SIM card where I live without ID and I’m looking to reduce being tracked as much as possible. Does anyone else do the same thing?

#privacy

threaded - newest

solrize@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 05:11 next collapse

I have a phone with no sim that I use sometimes over wifi, but I have another one with a sim that I sometimes use as a wifi hot spot for the no-sim phone.

phanto@lemmy.ca on 08 Dec 05:55 next collapse

I use phones without Sims, but it’s because I’m cheap and I have a collection of weird phones.

adespoton@lemmy.ca on 08 Dec 06:19 next collapse

My kids have phones with no SIM card; they can call 911 and they can use WiFi when in range; I have them set up with a VPN to home, so that’s the only connection any hotspot sees.

adarza@lemmy.ca on 08 Dec 07:04 next collapse

i have my boss’s old one here that’s pretty much only used for testing mobile web and for its camera. i use a ‘dumb’ phone, and its camera doesn’t work (was crap-tier anyway when it did). i think it has 10 on it. it doesn’t leave the office, doesn’t get used that much, and has no google account linked to it anymore since it was totally reset when it was replaced earlier in the year… the inability to use google play to install a few apps reduces its usefulness. i got f-droid on it but not everything is available from it.

gtr@programming.dev on 08 Dec 07:08 next collapse

I do have a SIM card for emergencies but I keep it on flight mode 100% of the time.

obamakitten@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 07:41 next collapse

jmp.chat/sim

Extremely useful if you are in North America regularly but not enough to justify a data plan. Still competitive with every single other pay-as-you-go plan in the states by at least 30% I have checked lol. The phone number service combined with it is useful because you get data-based phone calls from North America and Canada when you’re abroad (you can hook it up to a bunch of other different services too check the site but I’m assuming based on the user base of this site) and it’s super cheap, can maintain different numbers and track down who is getting you spam callers etc. Pay-as-you-go looks expensive but you’d be surprised how many services can be squeezed into a text-only minimal data kind of workflow. I can give you a list of apps that work well with under 1GB/month mobile data usage. You do kind of need either a model w a SD card slot or a chunky 512GB+ future ebrick Pixel model because using minimal data ends up using a lot of storage. Works best if you are usually on WiFi or have a hotspot (not sure if Calyx institute still exists but I used that a few years ago and it was very funny).

Anyways that’s how you operate without a real data plan but both jmp and calyx are secretly T-Mobile but shhhhhh don’t say it loudly

bananabread@lemmy.zip on 08 Dec 09:09 next collapse

You can call emergency services even without a sim, so you might not be as disconnected as you would think

colournoun@beehaw.org on 08 Dec 15:09 collapse

Yes, the cell tower can see the unique IMEI of your phone, so as long as the cell radio is on, the cell company can at least see what tower that IMEI is in range of. And if they can track the purchase of the phone to you, then they can identify your signal.

realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip on 09 Dec 00:37 collapse

That isn’t entirely true. While a phone without a SIM can still listen to broadcasts, it never registers as a subscriber because It’s missing a IMSI. So no, without a SIM you are indeed invisible to carriers. It’s a bit like screaming into the woods - someone might hear you if you do that, but if he doesn’t scream back, you have no idea he’s there.

The only exception to this if you’re actively calling emergency services - in that case, your phone will attempt an emergency attach to any network it can find, which is the point where the carrier of that network could see your IMEI. However, apart from that, you are indeed completely invisible without a SIM card.

RodgeGrabTheCat@sh.itjust.works on 08 Dec 10:50 next collapse

I have a data-only sim, otherwise no sim for phone calls. My phone stays in airplane mode nearly always. I use voip to make and receive calls when wifi is an option. Most voip providers, afaik, are not privacy respecting including the one I use. Planning on switching to jmpchat someday which is all about privacy.

eleitl@lemmy.zip on 08 Dec 11:20 next collapse

I have a Pixel 7a with GOS in airplane mode, with WiFi only. My old phone with the sim inserted is on Lineage OS and hasn’t fully (has a case of occasional ghost touch) died yet. I only use the old phone for cellular telephony.

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 12:18 next collapse

That’s a strange argument, why do you and lots of people replying here believe they are NOT tracked over WiFi which are themselves relying on ISPs?

If you don’t trust your ISP why would you trust random ISPs more?

WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works on 08 Dec 18:57 next collapse

what do those public wifis see? randomized mac addresses nowadays, mostly. that compared to your constant IMEI and the KYC the company submitted you to…

[deleted] on 08 Dec 18:59 collapse

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Auli@lemmy.ca on 08 Dec 12:43 next collapse

No I have people I want to be able to contact me.

monovergent@lemmy.ml on 08 Dec 17:06 next collapse

If I had to go WiFi-only, there would probably be hours-long gaps when I am unreachable. So my compromise is to use a non-KYC data-only SIM. Even if VPN is left off, it routes traffic first to a datacenter far from my actual location, and there is no longer a route for unencrypted calls and SMS and the associated spam. I don’t have a habit of streaming media on the go, so the data lasts quite a while and there isn’t much of an urge to use public WiFi.

Doesn’t fully eliminate the problem as IMEI is still sent and the cellular modem is still a rogue black box, but a step in the right direction. Knowing that the cellular modem can run whatever code with deep privileges as it wishes, I try to keep as little of my business on my phone as I can, with the bulk of my workflow centered around my laptop. Don’t get me wrong, I don’t think this automatically makes me immune, but I do think it’s a neat little exercise. Perhaps one could abstract the problem of the modem by getting a separate wireless hotspot.

My friends and family have accepted that they either need to get Signal, XMPP, or Matrix or I will be largely unreachable. The only remaining need for SMS and GSM voice calls stems from work, which is all handled by my work phone that is powered down, or at least disconnected, once I leave for the day. It sucks that this is not the norm, but it looks like I am quite fortunate that my friends, family, and employer all tolerate this workflow.

Take a look at “IoT” SIM cards, they’re a bit expensive and data-only, but might not be subject to the same KYC regulations.

listless@lemmy.cringecollective.io on 08 Dec 17:32 next collapse

A SIM card only gives you cell phone service. The cellular modem on your phone still connect to towers you’re still tracked by your IMEI, you can still make emergency calls, your phone is still pinging towers, you’re just making things inconvenient for yourself

[deleted] on 08 Dec 19:03 collapse

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HubertManne@piefed.social on 08 Dec 19:06 next collapse

I did for awhile but it was stock android and I was not doing it for privacy reasons. I just see no reason to pay for something I don’t particularly want. I use a talknow sim currently but mostly use it on wifi.

[deleted] on 08 Dec 19:09 next collapse

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sneaky@r.nf on 08 Dec 19:21 next collapse

I tried, but could never find anything that would work as a VOIP subsititute. So now I have a pixel that does everyrhing except phone calls. Getting close to just giving up and slamming a sim in it because at least it’s a little better than stock android.

realitaetsverlust@piefed.zip on 09 Dec 00:33 next collapse

Not having a SIM-Card in your phone is like having a tank without a main gun - it drives, but it can’t really do what it’s supposed to do. I don’t think that it’s a good idea. Also, not having a SIM-Card doesn’t make you invisible - only airplane mode really does that. Without some kind of network connectivity, you have an expensive, glorified brick that can make photos, play games and lets you listen to offline music.

Also, I’m wondering what exactly you’re trying to achive. Get a private OS like graphene, don’t install any google services, have anti-tracking protection installed into the browser (or use a safe and sane browser by default) and you’re good.

Not having a SIM doesn’t do anything for you except hiding from your carrier, however, if your threat model involves you being worried by being tracked by your carrier (and by extension, the feds), you’re in really hot water already and you’re probably better off with detaching yourself from the modern world.

skynet@feddit.cl on 09 Dec 01:39 next collapse

I do use my SIM card in a dumbphone, it’s good for mental health too

swelter_spark@reddthat.com on 11 Dec 07:16 collapse

When I got a new phone a while ago, I put my sim card in the new phone and kept using my old phone on wifi only.