planned Proton replacement
from inlandempire@jlai.lu to privacy@lemmy.ml on 03 Nov 16:33
https://jlai.lu/post/45686870
from inlandempire@jlai.lu to privacy@lemmy.ml on 03 Nov 16:33
https://jlai.lu/post/45686870
I’ve cancelled my subscription yesterday, conveniently it was about to renew at the end of the week, so I have a few days to migrate from Proton, here’s what I’m thinking of, but I’d love to hear what other people are switching to
threaded - newest
I’ve been using KeePassXC with Syncthing for years and it’s been great as a password manager for myself. But I don’t need to share those credentials with anyone.
Same, plus a yubikey for 2FA
Aegis is my chosen 2FA. never have been convinced on hardware keys personally.
Fair enough. I like the ease of simply touching it. It’s less of a frustration for when my wife wants to access my password manager
I’m strongly considering getting a hardware key. Is Yubikey the best choice or are the other options also worth considering?
I bought my yubikey at least 7-8 years ago and then stopped keeping up on comparisons. I honestly have no idea which is the best, because there are varying use cases and standards available. Yubikey works for my use case and threat model, but I have no idea what would be best for yours. I wish I could be more specific for you but also don’t want to give you misleading info.
Solokey and Nitrokey are strong alternatives, and the two I’ve been recommended by people who would know.
Solokey is good if Fido is the only thing needed.
Nitrokey has Fido and more. I keep meaning to try the other features, but haven’t gotten around to it.
Does keepass have a reputable browser extension or is the application itself all that’s used? I think that’s what moved me off Keepass initially after using it for like six years and then moving to BitWarden a few years ago
I’m not sure what you mean by reputable, but I’ve been using the official KeePassXC extension.
I’ve tried that exact setup but Syncthing kept not detecting changes or creating conflicts… So I’m still stuck with Proton Pass :/ (it’s a good password manager, but Andy Yen is being too much of a loser)
For Mailbox there’s also Tuta.
For VPNs you could consider IVPN. It’s Gibraltar-based.
As for document collaboration; Cryptpad.
Bitwarden is US-based; see their site - “Bitwarden Inc. is incorporated in the State of Delaware in the United States of America. 8bit Solutions LLC is wholly owned by Bitwarden Inc.”. That said, it’s OSS and can be hosted locally.
Ill check out ivpn, thanks for the tip!
Is it just me or is the room spinning faster?
I use Aliasvault as Passwordmanager and Riseup VPN. They are great!
This perfectly sums up my situation. I’m currently trialing a free Tuta mail account and a Mailfence account (freeee)
Waiting for expert reviews of the alternative VPN options.
I wouldn’t trust Bitwarden anymore. I don’t believe they’ve done anything bad just yet, but they recently sold out to a private equity firm and quite literally removed “transparency” from their company values. KeePassXC is your friend.
Ahh too bad then I’ll switch to Keepass yeah
No they didnt. Why do people keep making up this bullshit?
Because of this.
“Bitwarden company values spell the word “GRIT,” and stand for:
It used to say Inclusion and Transparency, before they sold out.
But they replaced transparency with “trust” so surely we can trust them right? /s
I don’t trust bitwarden. This was very annoying: https://community.bitwarden.com/t/copying-values-brings-up-remote-desktop-window/100351/20
They claimed copying on Linux was only possible via screensharing despite literally every other app being able to copy text without that. The thread ends with “it’s linux’s fault bro” and yet the issue seems to have been fixed since then.
Been using AirVPN. Just make sure you use the wireguard config, not the tcp openvpn (not sure about the udp openvpn, but people seem to recommend the wireguard option and I accidentally used the tcp openvpn config at first).
Seconding KeypassXC.
I got airvpn a few days ago, what’s wrong with openvpn?
Specific the tcp config. Tcp adds an extra handshake for every transaction, so I was getting like 2.5 Mbps.
Thanks, unless I’m checking it wrong I got UDP as the default config. However I noticed my phone load things noticeably slower but dismissed it as expected VPN behavior. Did you somehow check for the handshakes or is it just a knowledge you have about TCP? Mind you I barely know anything about networking.
I downloaded the config files for openvpn udp, tcp, and wireguard udp and for some reason actually used the tcp one instead of just having it around as a backup. AirVPN even says only to use it as a backup if UDP is causing issues on the config generator page. Entirely an unforced user error.
IVPN or AirVPN (depending on whether or not you need port-forwarding) is my VPN recommendation.
ELI5 why Mailbox.org instead of Tuta?
What are all of you people using VPNs for?
Trying to avoid tracking if only a little bit, including by my ISP.
Using public unencrypted WiFi, like what you find at an airport or McDonald’s.
this community used to be full of proton fanboys – i’m genuinely surprised that this hasn’t been downvoted into oblivion because of it.
Proton has had very bad press past week. In case you missed it, an article came out exposing an internal work culture that very much did not match up with what customers were being sold, including potentially sidelining security to prioritize speed of development of new features.
you’re preaching to the choir – i stopped trusting them when their ceo needlessly voiced support for ttrump and i shared my comment because i’ve been experiencing the downvotes/anger from the proton brigade on lemmy for it.
Why would you ever trust any company
Probably because Proton just went full Ai enshittification.
I guess it’s nice to see the anti-AI hysteria being used for something constructive :p
I’m trying out a few CPNs on iOS. This far Windscribe is good with a 10gb free limit. Psiphon has been good too. I have Orbot to try next for VPN over TOR.
I don’t know if I’d still suggest Bitwarden with the dual-licensing drama from not too long ago and the new CEO.
blog.ppb1701.com/the-quiet-renovation-at-bitwarde…
Bitwarden is pivoting towards the same enshittification path as everything else, so that’s not gonna be a good long term for a password manager. They hired a new ceo whose only noteworthy experience is prepping companies for mergers and acquisitions, and briefly removed messaging on their website about always having a free tier which they reinstated after backlash. All signs point to a sinking ship, imo.
I don’t have the answer for what to use instead since I’m still a paid subscriber with them, but I’m looking around. Probably keepassxc but I don’t know enough to host and sync my own.
I don’t think Keepass does syncing. I just leave the database in my Nextcloud sync folder on my desktop, and I can always pull the latest version to my phone. It’d be a bit more annoying if I routinely added new entries from my phone since Android won’t let the NC app maintain bidirectional sync, but I pretty much always do it from my desktop, so the workflow is fine for me personally. If you do it on your phone, you can upload the changed version, but I think you’d have to do it manually, so not a great flow, but if it’s a rarity, not too big a deal to me.
Vaultwarden is a great alternative.
AFAIK the concept behind keepassxc is that it’s an encrypted
.kdbxfile that you sync yourself among your devices by any means you can. There are official apps for Windows/Linux/Mac, browser extensions for Firefox/Chrome/Chromium/Vivaldi, there’s integration with ssh-agent, and 3rd-party apps for Android and iOS.KeepassDX on android. Any keepass .kdbx file opener on every OS. .kdbx file saved on a local network shared folder on an always on raspberry pi. Access the folder on all devices, open the file with keepass app.
No sync, no extra sync software, no dangling copies, changes are immediate, decryption happens on device not over the network. Step up to network share over sftp. Tailscale tunnel to access when away from home.
this is the way.
bonus: put it on your NAS in a file-sync folder.
Which file opener on iOS?
Yeah… I’ve noticed as well…. also interested in a good alternative.
Nextcloud passwords. If you don’t want to host yourself you get a free one when you sign up for a friendica account at libranet.de.
Yah for now keeping Proton Pass only for that reason. And still on Gmail because I’d tried thrice migrating all to Proton but something always annoyed me.
For those of us who do need Drive for cloud storage, any suggestions? I’m looking for around 2tb. Please don’t say self hosted NAS.
Out of curiosity, why not self hosted NAS?
I’ve been pretty happy with mine.
I already manage a lot of self hosted stuff, and this cloud storage is specifically for my crucial off-site backups.
Understandable. Sadly, you can’t exactly set up an off-site backup in your living room, no matter how much you want to.
When someone doesn’t want self hosted NAS, it feels like they often just dn’t want to bother with it. While I haven’t used them myself, I’ve heard good things about ready made NAS boxes.
For self built, it has been too hassle free in my experience. I want to tinker more with the NAS part, but it is just too reliable & maintenance free!
While I know that they’re different, the more common reasons for not wanting a NAS just remind me a bit of some “reasons” to not care about digital privacy or security.
i’ve moved to filen.io for a few years now, no complaints so far.
I haven’t tried it, but there is filen.io which offers 2 TiB for 8.99€/mn.
Try filen. I put some work stuff there. Though I’m now using it as offsite backup because my self host seafile is what i prefer to use for the day to day
I want to ditch Proton for obvious reasons but I’m really stuck on what VPN to switch to. They all seem to suck in their own special ways.
I’ve been very happy with purelymail
Hey login is a good Password manager and free
I’m tired of keeping a book of grudges everytime a CEO says something. I’ll be waiting for now.
Like, it’s my business email, it’s on my cards and my site and pretty much everything else related to the business. Just change all that!?
For the future, it might be worth buying your own domain. Besides looking cool, switching providers is as simple as changing your MX records.
Your business email is a @proton.me address?
You mentioned a website, wouldn’t you rather have an address @ your website domain?
Site is hosted by the accounting software I use, template based and I do no e-commerce.
Proton Mail is free and reasonably secure/not fucking Google, and I don’t computer enough to host my own site.
I cut lawns and maintain gardens, I just need to be reachable.
You mean savvy or cost?
If it’s cost, you can have a simple site and email with your own domain for something like $30 a year.
Do you own your rake and gloves or rent/borrow them?
It’s the same thing having a domain. Really basic but essential tool that it makes sense to own it and have no surprises or changes at anybody else’s whim.
yeah, you know, a security company CEO saying to ignore security. Just sleep on that… what could happen?
Walt.is seems to be a promising wallet alternative even if you use a degoogled device.
I never took him for a Claude evangelist.
He is more of a ChatGPT witchdoctor.
You say you don’t need drive storage, but you already have it with Mailbox if you ever need it.
Not needing Meet because you don’t talk to people, this is the energy I need.
Yeah that’s a neat thing!
And yet here they are, talking to people.
I use Aegis for 2FA, I haven’t really had any issues with it
Libreoffice is ok enough for docs/sheets but it’s not really a cloud based service. I would say make your own setup for storage but with prices nowadays that probably isn’t happening lol
people better get familiar with docker
mailbox.org vs fastmail? i have a custom domain - but am “scared” to migrate my serious accts to it. (github bank etc). thoughts?
Mailbox has Drive/Office and Meet included. VPN is undoubtedly Mullvad. Yes their CEO is a fascist but none of them are perfect. Mullvad is as close as it gets.
If you ever wanted to Cake Wallet is pretty much the gold standard for mobile crypto wallets.
“None are perfect” is typically used to mean they each have imperfections but are otherwise a good choice. The CEO being a fascist is such a large red flag that aircraft need to divert around it.
IVPN seems like a decent option
I kept seeing ppl talk about it but never looked into it, apparently he wrote a blog post about why he did it. It was an interesting read actually, in his words was it about activism and not about the party, he wanted to protest and that party happened to be the tactical one. He sounds like an anarchist in the post which surprised me a lot. But I still think it was stupid of him and my mixed feelings for mullvad is still there.
Reading this post and the one he linked in the first paragraph, he sounds like an ancap
My take away from those two is that he is a mix of a liberal, capitalist but heavy/mostly leaning anarchist. He has very strong views about freedom, does not trust humans with taking care of themselves or others and he do not want governance and think the internet is the perfect example.
I mean, reading the lead up to your quote where you have wild statements and weird framing like below, it’s clear to me where they lean and I’d rather not meddle with such a person
Yes definitely, I have been on your side all along on that part. It was a wild ride reading it all. I thought you only wanted to talk about the political part of it. Not his very rambling weird and bias view on the world where he only points to things that can kind of be used as examples but are very weird examples, like the ones you picked. I would not work for him and I am not his customer.
Oh yeah for me these are kind of linked haha
Bitwarden’s gone private equity. I’d hold off on switching to them; maybe try to live with KeePass if you’re not on a family plan.
I switched over to vaultwarden. I am stuck on an iPhone for the time being and I don’t care for all the Keepass ios apps.
Completely valid. I myself am still on Bitwarden, waiting for the other shoe to drop, but my family is already entrenched in it.
I think if I have to move them again, I might seriously consider forking keepass, adding the features I use in bitwarden.
I do not look forward to dealing with IOS tho.
Vaultwarden is completely Bitwarden-compatible. You can export all data from Bitwarden server/service, import it into Vaultwarden server, and your family will not notice the change at all, except you’ll ask them to change address in their already installed Bitwarden app.
They don’t need to change anything else. To them, it will still be the same Bitwarden.
Here lie dragons: for as long as the private equity firm that owns Bitwarden chooses to let us use their clients.
There are non-Bitwarden Android clients around, but they lack Chrome extensions and IOS.
True, this is a possibility. But, in years of Vaultwarden’s existence, this never happened.
100% but for years of Vaultwarden’s existence, they haven’t been owned by private equity.
Just keep your eyes open and know that it could come for us. I’ve stopped counting on how many services went private->enshitify bad enough for me to bail.
Fair enough. In case we do need to move, here’s a quick tip: KeepassXC and many other password managers are able to read Bitwarden export files, so you can seamlessly move credentials there, should the need arise.
Also, Vaultwarden has a web interface, which can do as a temporary or full substitute. I used it for a while, it’s totally doable.
Oddly, i knew that to be the case deep down, and if someone had asked me if that worked, i’d have gone yeah absolutely, but I didn’t even think about it as a backup strategy, that’s 100% my plan going forward now :)
I would switch to KeePass if its sync method was more sane than “big binary file + Syncthing”, it seems like all the password manager options kindof suck in some way
Yeah, there are a bunch of ways to tackle that. Chunk-Based Content-Addressable Block Storage (that weird thing where they put a folder of 0-A the folders under that with hex-based naming and small chunks of data wouldn’t be horrible keeping update sizes managable. The real problem there is dealing with Syncthing conflict files. The monobinary is either new or old. Maybe a local-only CBC with deltas delivered by syncthing so they can overwrite each other and a rollback/history option.
P2P anything is complicated. Something as damning and imporant as password management makes it so much worse.
Finding a good 2fa is such PITA. Is this have free limits too?
Someone mentioned: www.privateinternetaccess.com
Anyone know anything about it?
For meet, I just generate a Signal meet link and share with people.
Instead of bitwarden, I use KeePass with Syncthing.
Instead of Lumo(the app was terribly slow), you can use ddg ai, on fdroid there is a 1mb webview container application of ddg ai specifically so if you dont want to use ddg browser, yoi can use that for their ai.
For 2fa, i use stratumauth.
I need a vpn alternative too.
Is there any free good email service other than Tuta?
All pricing are too high for people with average wage of my country.
Mailbox.org starts at €1 per month.
Other than that, there’s the old adage “if you’re not paying, you’re the product”
Dude, even when you’re paying, you’re the product. These companies can get dirty. Like why is he moving from Proton if he was paying for it?
That’s exactly right. I got Proton Family about 13 or 14 months ago witha 2 years subscription, and am getting ready to run stalwart as my email server on a VPS and call it a day.
Have been testing for about 2 weeks, and after finally getting it right, it has been incredibly solid.
I tested the e2ee with my own proton email (pgp) and it’s flawless.
Before stalwart, I tried to have my own email server, what a pain in the ass that was. Not anymore.
Happy customer of Mailbox for 3 years here! At first the UI was awful, but now they have redesigned it very, very nicely. Yes you have to pay but the price is completely fair, particularly if you are a heavy email user.
UI aside, I have had 0 issues with them. I have a custom domain, so I can create many aliases. Being able to sync my contacts and calendar via WebDav thanks to Mailbox instead of having to use a Google account is a great plus. On the computer I use their website, but many people prefer Thunderbird. On my phone and tablet I use FairEmail (I’m a big fan of the dev. That man is on the road to create the most flexible email app in the universe).
They offer a full suite with Drive, Notes, Calendar… But I don’t use them much, so I can’t comment on them.
Exactly! “I don’t call people”. I need the 911 button and the numbers for my family and that’s it. For everything else there’s Lemmy.
… you have no friends?
I’m married and have kids. If I ever see my friends it happens by accident at church, costco, etc. One time I was flying for business and I found an old friend on the same flight. I don’t need to call them and waste their time with whatever I might think of as necessary from my neck if the woods. I don’t live in the same state or city. It’s had to make friends when you have kids to feed. Also, since your time is busy there’s little to spare for other things. Once the kids are older and I retire, maybe I’ll go actively seeking friendships.
What an odd world view. A family and friends are compatible.
I just don’t have close friends. I grew up elsewhere. You can’t have cake and eat it too sometimes. I’m too busy to have more than just saying hello if I see them my way somewhere. I’m also not that busy that I won’t stop and talk for a few minutes. I just am not gonna be driving to someone’s house or hang on the phone. There’s just too much to do.
Bitwarden is getting worse btw unless you’re running it yourself
Yea… God I hate the world… I started using Bitwarden like… A few months ago, and they’re already going in the shitter…
It seems it hasn’t happened yet. They are still open source for now. I am still using my Vaultwarden with Bitwarden.
It seems it might be going that way though.
If it goes fully closed source then I imagine the fix will be Vaultwarden devs coding some replacement apps.
Yea they haven’t done anything yet but afaik they changed their licenses to prepare to do it… So it’s only a matter of time
Never understood the appeal, I’ve had my passwords in a keepass file on a Nextcloud server for years. If I’m gonna involve a third party, I night as well just use Firefox Sync (which I do for less important stuff)
I have all my passwords written down in a journal not in a computer
I’m fien with Murena Workspace (France) and Filen (Germany) for Cloud, both OpenSource. I don’t use VPN, only Cyberghost Proxy extension to skip country restrictions, maybe the SPN (multichannel VPN) of the Portmaster app, if needed one day
I use RiseUp VPN. It works for everything, but please don’t use it to sail. Journalists rely on it and their hardware has been seized previously.
Ive switch to IVPN; Njalla is really appealing, but I dont think you get the options of switching countries/servers, which I like doing if I start getting throttled somewhere
You’re correct about njalla. I’ll paste in a previous post I made a few months about my experience using njalla…
I use them on my nas for torrenting.
Most might consider it expensive give the limitation on devices and location but the freedom to open multiple ports makes it amazing for torrenting.
My nas runs 5 instances of qbittorrent and slskd all with connectable ports opened.
It works reliably for what I use it for. Other than that, I have nothing to report on my experience using them and in this case, no news is good news.
Why 5 instances of qbittorrent? Does a single instance have trouble with lots of torrents or something?
I’m enjoying vacation totally out of the loop here, what Proton did? Fascism or fascism?
CEO and other top admins are AI apologists. Wants their developers to work more AI code than the traditional way. There’s concerns this could make Proton code less secure. Lemmy and Reddit are up and arms about the AI.
up and armsup in armsIt’s an idiom.
Noticed it after posting but didn’t want to edit.
I would maybe hold off on choosing Bitwarden. Around the time they raised their pricing they started getting venture capitalist money so the enshittification there may be coming. As far as alternatives, the only other one I’ve used besides Proton is KeePass which could be make or break depending on how you setup the vault, I’d probably save it in something pCloud so you aren’t screwed should something happen to your server, but YMMV.
The primary service that we all need to de-google (or de-proton in this case) is email. The trouble is, the available email services all seem to limit you to 1 user and a few aliases, unless you want to pay a lot more. This kinda makes sense if you are using the proton domain name, they have name space limits and don’t want to become a spam source. However, if you bring your own domain name the breakdown of users and aliases is essentially irrelevant to the cost, and it should only be based on storage and transmit limits. I should be able to have as many user accounts and aliases as I like. This is what I get from MXRoute, and what makes it impossible for my to leave them even though they are mostly US based. I can’t find a solid replacement service that isn’t ripping us off with unnecessary limitations.
In case anyone suggests it, hosting your own email server is a very risky business, and best left to someone else.
Have you looked into mailbox.org or posteo.de? The second one doesn’t let you use a custom domain, if you care about that. The first one does.
I’m looking for a Proton replacement too. Haven’t decided yet, but mailbox.org is on my short list. Standard plan gives you 25 aliases. Or you can use a custom domain and have as many alaises as you want.
They are close but I think mailbox.org charges per mailbox.
The best match I got was Migadu which I’m still tempted by but they’ve had reliability problems before.
The alternative is an smtp relay service in front of my own mail server, though not my preference.
Five Eyes, Nine Eyes, and Fourteen Eyes intelligence-sharing agreements makes it nearly impossible to have privacy with email unless self hosted even still…
Has anyone unlinked their SimpleLogin account from Proton? I see its an option, but curious what will happen. I was a subscriber seperately prior to Proton but linked them up later. This will be the harder thing to migrate so if I can keep just simpleLogin going for a while longer. So many aliases :(
It should work without, that was the original idea. But it is owned by Proton now.
If you end up having to create another SL account - this could be useful simplelogin.io/docs/…/transfer-alias/
Skip bitwarden.
What about vault warden backend so you don’t have to deal with their shit and have 2fa?
I’ve been using mailbox.org for a few years now and I love it.
the web client is good, and it was easy to set up on my phone alongside my other accounts.
it costs money (something like €3/year), but it’s worth it.
plus, it’s still relatively new, so if you suffer from Generic White Guy Name™ like I do, you can finally have a username/email address that’s not full of numbers.
can i ask for more details about the email address and generic names thing? I’m not sure i understand whar you mean sorry
Basically there’s no way you could get an email address of just: [first][last]@gmail.com on Gmail, because there are so many users of Gmail. That’s not the case for newer services with less users.
ohhh right that makes sense thanks
You’re better off adding a custom domain anyway, that way you’re not vendor locked and you can move the emails with ease. It’s included in all the subs I think.
I switched to mailbox from proton and put addy.io in front of it for custom domains and aliasing
Windscribe has been good to me as a VPN.
I’ve switched email providers a few times, but I bought a custom domain and use that as my email address. Which makes switching providers easy. I’m sure I don’t need to mention that in a Privacy community, but figured I would anyway.
I went from an @gmail, to @proton (then bought the domain), then switched to Fastmail with same domain.
FYI: Fastmail company is on a X eyes country with server operating on the US as well. That being said, probably the least bad option now.