jet@hackertalks.com
on 06 Aug 2024 18:53
nextcollapse
We have a fight about Taler every few weeks.
I’ll summarize:
Positives
Centralized, no bad people doing bad things
Fast, because its centralized
Doesn’t use proof of work, because its centralized
No currency conversion, because its centralized it can stay in Fiat
Cons
Centralized, if the central authority thinks you or your business is bad your shit out of luck
Discoverable, the Central authority has all the information to deconstruct all activity (yes they do, no really, they do)
Not actually private
A solution looking for a problem
Fight amongst yourselves repeating the above points.
If you care about privacy you will use Monero, if you care about centralization you will use whatever your local bank transfer system is.
poVoq@slrpnk.net
on 06 Aug 2024 19:14
nextcollapse
Taler is not centralised. I think you are thinking of CBDC?
Taler could be described as semi-centralized at best. You are free to chose your exchange and you can easily use multiple the same time. It really isn’t that different to crypto-currencies in that regard if you consider the need of fiat exchanges for real world use there as well.
That’s not quite how Taler works. Yes, the exchange will know when you generate Taker tokens from fiat, but that is similar to going to an ATM and getting cash. Afterwards the exchange has no means to track what you spend the tokens on.
I should note, there are cryptocurrencies that also don't use proof of work. Ethereum, the second-largest, switched away from proof of work two and a half years ago.
ExtremeDullard@lemmy.sdf.org
on 06 Aug 2024 21:18
collapse
The problem with pulling Betteridge is that this isn’t a headline: this is one person asking a genuine question in a Lemmy community.
I’m not trolling, but you do post 15-20 times per day, your basically an engagement bot. Your comment here has nothing to do with the subject of the post, as an example, its just a meta comment on identifying your behavior.
We have talked about taler before, and the discussion gets heated, so its good engagement bait.
So yes, your headline post title is a headline, and the headline rule of thumb applies.
ModerateImprovement@sh.itjust.works
on 06 Aug 2024 23:10
nextcollapse
So if I find this place dead with no posts daily, what should I do? I post here hoping that people will start making this place active.
I did not search for taler here because my lemmy android client does not support searching in a specific community.
But I am not willing to spend time arguing with you in the comments.
AnarchistsForKamala@lemmy.world
on 07 Aug 2024 02:24
collapse
your accusation of bad faith is, itself, bad faith
qweertz@programming.dev
on 06 Aug 2024 19:01
nextcollapse
seems like a good middle ground tbh. No cryptocurrency will ever reach the adoption of fiat. This could make online transactions that would otherwise be made over your creditcard, bank or insert fintech like Paypal quite a bit better
And I’d rather have this than a “digital Euro” or “digital Yuan”
It provides most of the benefits of "crypto", the ones that normal people actually want, with the added advantage that it might actually end up being usable.
umami_wasbi@lemmy.ml
on 06 Aug 2024 20:46
nextcollapse
No as it’s not point to point. It involves an intermediate party to broker the transaction. Think that like a bank. You need to apply for one, which most likely involves KYC. Taler is designed such that the recipient is known, for tax purposes they claim.
In contrast, AFAIK crypto can be P2P, only involving the blockchain and miner/validator that don’t know you. That’s what not Taler try to do.
EDIT: Add correction to crypto description.
EngineerGaming@feddit.nl
on 06 Aug 2024 22:08
nextcollapse
So it is a card replacement while crypto is more akin to a cash analog. If the two coexist in the digital world, that would be awesome.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 07 Aug 2024 06:56
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Let’s keep cash around as well
EngineerGaming@feddit.nl
on 07 Aug 2024 09:37
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YES. In the physical world, no digital tech would be as accessible, easy to use and hard to surveil.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 07 Aug 2024 04:24
nextcollapse
The problem with crypto is that is chaotic. It also has the major downside of being very computational and requiring a ton of energy.
In contrast Taler is a payment system not a crypto. You could technically could use crypto with Taler if you wanted to. Taler has lightning fast payments which have way less overhead.
In summary I think cash and crypto are good for small transactions such as paying a friend but for big businesses and normal shopping Taler is better
umami_wasbi@lemmy.ml
on 07 Aug 2024 09:53
collapse
I think crypto can achieve stability, not by pegged to a fiat currency but commodity backed. There are also mechanisms and algorithms that can confirm transactions without using excessive energy, be fast, and private all in the same time. I still think crypto have a future. Yet I don’t know how far that future is, but for now I will stay away from it as far as I can.
kenkenken@sh.itjust.works
on 07 Aug 2024 08:25
collapse
This is a weak point of GNU Taler. I assume one will need to have a bank license to run GNU Taler instance. And banks will not be very motivated. We can dispute how GNU Taler can be better (or not) than crypto, but it is pure theoretical now.
mox@lemmy.sdf.org
on 06 Aug 2024 21:35
nextcollapse
AFAIK it has no exchanges yet, so for now, it doesn’t provide anything at all.
poVoq@slrpnk.net
on 07 Aug 2024 03:32
nextcollapse
The German coop-bank that is part of the current pilot project has recently stated that if everything goes according to plan they will begin offering it before the end of this year.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip
on 07 Aug 2024 06:54
collapse
Yet is the key word. It is rapidly getting close
UnfortunateShort@lemmy.world
on 07 Aug 2024 00:19
nextcollapse
Want to butt in here quickly and bring attention towards the fact that crypto currencies in general are not meant to be privacy preserving.
You are literally broadcasting transactions, making it impossible to leave no trace.
threaded - newest
No, because it’s not decentralized.
It federated which is decentralized in my book
No en.wikipedia.org/…/Betteridge's_law_of_headlines
We have a fight about Taler every few weeks.
I’ll summarize:
Positives
Cons
Fight amongst yourselves repeating the above points.
If you care about privacy you will use Monero, if you care about centralization you will use whatever your local bank transfer system is.
Taler is not centralised. I think you are thinking of CBDC?
Taler could be described as semi-centralized at best. You are free to chose your exchange and you can easily use multiple the same time. It really isn’t that different to crypto-currencies in that regard if you consider the need of fiat exchanges for real world use there as well.
Sure, I agree with that…
Taler is like a decentralized protocol where every transaction has to be tied to a fully KYCed CEX. (Know your customer, central exchange/bank).
That’s not quite how Taler works. Yes, the exchange will know when you generate Taker tokens from fiat, but that is similar to going to an ATM and getting cash. Afterwards the exchange has no means to track what you spend the tokens on.
I should note, there are cryptocurrencies that also don't use proof of work. Ethereum, the second-largest, switched away from proof of work two and a half years ago.
The problem with pulling Betteridge is that this isn’t a headline: this is one person asking a genuine question in a Lemmy community.
They are not asking a genuine question, 27 day old account, 310 POSTS (not comments) in 27 days.
Its a headline
So I did not make any comments, right?
You are making a bad faith argument and you know it.
Anyway, enjoy trolling around.
I’m not trolling, but you do post 15-20 times per day, your basically an engagement bot. Your comment here has nothing to do with the subject of the post, as an example, its just a meta comment on identifying your behavior.
We have talked about taler before, and the discussion gets heated, so its good engagement bait.
So yes, your headline post title is a headline, and the headline rule of thumb applies.
So if I find this place dead with no posts daily, what should I do? I post here hoping that people will start making this place active.
I did not search for taler here because my lemmy android client does not support searching in a specific community.
But I am not willing to spend time arguing with you in the comments.
Believe in what you want.
post what you like, engagement is fine, i’d just hope you would have something to say about Taler in the comments.
calling other users bots is dehumanizing
your accusation of bad faith is, itself, bad faith
seems like a good middle ground tbh. No cryptocurrency will ever reach the adoption of fiat. This could make online transactions that would otherwise be made over your creditcard, bank or insert fintech like Paypal quite a bit better
And I’d rather have this than a “digital Euro” or “digital Yuan”
It provides most of the benefits of "crypto", the ones that normal people actually want, with the added advantage that it might actually end up being usable.
No as it’s not point to point. It involves an intermediate party to broker the transaction. Think that like a bank. You need to apply for one, which most likely involves KYC. Taler is designed such that the recipient is known, for tax purposes they claim.
In contrast, AFAIK crypto can be P2P, only involving the blockchain and miner/validator that don’t know you. That’s what not Taler try to do.
EDIT: Add correction to crypto description.
So it is a card replacement while crypto is more akin to a cash analog. If the two coexist in the digital world, that would be awesome.
Let’s keep cash around as well
YES. In the physical world, no digital tech would be as accessible, easy to use and hard to surveil.
The problem with crypto is that is chaotic. It also has the major downside of being very computational and requiring a ton of energy.
In contrast Taler is a payment system not a crypto. You could technically could use crypto with Taler if you wanted to. Taler has lightning fast payments which have way less overhead.
In summary I think cash and crypto are good for small transactions such as paying a friend but for big businesses and normal shopping Taler is better
I think crypto can achieve stability, not by pegged to a fiat currency but commodity backed. There are also mechanisms and algorithms that can confirm transactions without using excessive energy, be fast, and private all in the same time. I still think crypto have a future. Yet I don’t know how far that future is, but for now I will stay away from it as far as I can.
This is a weak point of GNU Taler. I assume one will need to have a bank license to run GNU Taler instance. And banks will not be very motivated. We can dispute how GNU Taler can be better (or not) than crypto, but it is pure theoretical now.
AFAIK it has no exchanges yet, so for now, it doesn’t provide anything at all.
The German coop-bank that is part of the current pilot project has recently stated that if everything goes according to plan they will begin offering it before the end of this year.
Yet is the key word. It is rapidly getting close
Want to butt in here quickly and bring attention towards the fact that crypto currencies in general are not meant to be privacy preserving.
You are literally broadcasting transactions, making it impossible to leave no trace.
www.privacyguides.org/en/cryptocurrency/
Except Monero
Both better. Proprietary money is a scam.
Not really. Maybe it can give more privacy than transparent crypto like Bitcoin, but private transactions in crypto are superior.