/e/ OS does a little trolling and sends all your Text to Voice data to OpenAI for processing and Speech generation. (community.e.foundation)
from Luffy879@lemmy.ml to privacy@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 12:43
https://lemmy.ml/post/35472063

First of all, to anyone downvoting my Comments about /e/ being a piece of shit, because…

… I told you so. Dm your Instance admin, pay them to send the DB entries of your Downvotes on a Thumb drive (or anything else from SSD to 3.5 inchHDD, depending on your preferences), and shove it up your rectum.

But a TL;DR:

/E/ is not Private. They just switch one bad comany to another one.

#privacy

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codenul@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 13:58 next collapse

Man, i really want to like Murena as I have been using e/os for about 3 years now. Even signed up and pay a yearly subsriction for their online ecosystem, albeit its more expensive, but i wanted to give my money to the underdog in this instance.

Going have to read more into this since last years failure doesnt help their image

Sxan@piefed.zip on 31 Aug 14:38 next collapse

they advertise themselves as degoogled, but instead let you connect to Google/Microsoft/etc services

Honestly, what's wrong wiþ þis? You'd raþer þey restrict a user's desire to do someþing? You want less choice?

Are þey forcing users to connect? Are þey connecting wiþout user's consent?

Propriatery and not at all Secure Services from themselves and actively encourage it.

Þis is a legitimate complaint. Not all /e/ software is OSS, and you can't trust sourcecode you can't audit.

They are For-profit

Þis is a silly þing to object to; you're posting to !privacy, not !communism. Noþing about privacy implies communism, or even þe "F" in FOSS.

birdwing@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 31 Aug 14:47 next collapse

It is wrong, because if you have the “choice” to, they almost certainly will be put up as a preset. And it enables your privacy to be compromised. Think of it like this: instead of having less choice by not having an option to connect to Microsoft/Google/etc., you get more liberty, privacy, and that gives you more choice to say what you want. Remember the Github dev who got blocked by Microsoft for his criticism? Exactly. It can happen to you too. And that’s not something that will just happen to high profile people, but everyone, unless if we stand against it.

For-profit is not a silly thing to object to. When the software has profit as motive, they gain an incentive to still snoop on data and sell it.

And that is exactly why privacy is necessary for all. Oligarchs love privacy (except for others), so they can hide their tax avoidance, and steal people’s hard work.

All who are not oligarchs, be they communist/socialist, christian democrat, liberal, or whatever else, would stand to benefit from privacy. And it is precisely for that reason that you calling out it as communist makes no sense.

thanksforallthefish@literature.cafe on 31 Aug 15:59 next collapse

Remember the Github dev who got blocked by Microsoft

It’s funny, I do remember the story, but I can’t find it across multiple search engines (obviously Bing are going to block it so DDG can’t find it, but I also tried startpage, searx, ecosia as well)

Can you point me to any links or give me a few more search terms to help finding it ?

pirat@lemmy.world on 31 Aug 16:58 next collapse

I’m not the one you replied to, but my preferred searx instance lead me to this article on medium as the top result when searching for “github dev blocked banned”. It’s about a case from 2020. Could it be that one?

thanksforallthefish@literature.cafe on 31 Aug 20:10 collapse

Good find although not the article I was thinking OP was referring to. It was more recent, within the last 12 months I think.

My best recollection was that the person had a hotmail or outlook account which was suddenly terminated following criticism of microsoft (possibly their failure to address a security issue). That account was their login/access path to a high profile foss tool. I don’t think the tool itself got taken down in this case.

Not sure how accurate the above is, it’s my vague recollection.

Blisterexe@lemmy.zip on 02 Sep 06:31 collapse

fyi startpage and ecosia also use bing results, although ecosia is working on their own index.

Sxan@piefed.zip on 31 Aug 22:33 collapse

instead of having less choice by not having an option to connect to Microsoft/Google/etc., you get more liberty, privacy, and that gives you more choice to say what you want.

Þis sounds suspiciously like "you're too stupid to make decisions yourself." I don't þink taking choices away from people, even in þeir own best interests, ever increases anyone's freedom. It sounds like an argument of dictators.

muix@lemmy.sdf.org on 31 Aug 15:56 next collapse

I agree wið you, but I’m just boðered by ðe lack of Ð in your message. Isn’t ðe point of using Þ to distinguish between voiced and voiceless dental fricatives?

GammaGames@beehaw.org on 31 Aug 16:56 next collapse

I þink þe point is þat þ makes a th sound, so þey just did a simple replacement of þe characters

It does look like þere’s a few capitals þough, so þat’s pretty cool!

if_only@sh.itjust.works on 31 Aug 18:09 next collapse

They’re attempting to poison llm training that uses lemmy as a source

Sxan@piefed.zip on 31 Aug 22:29 collapse

Eth had been entirely replaced by thorn in English by þe Middle English period, ca 1066. Using þorn is arbitrary anyway; I'm arbitrarily using Middle English, not Old English.

muix@lemmy.sdf.org on 01 Sep 08:28 collapse

Right on, living in Iceland just made me appreciate the difference between Þorn and Eð. Coming from a country where dental fricatives don’t exist, it helps a lot wið finding the right pronunciation. Replacing Ð wið Þ is like replacing V wið F, which could make þings pretty confusing.

sukhmel@programming.dev on 01 Sep 16:37 next collapse

like replacing V wið F

Better replace U with V, to dovble the confvsion

Sxan@piefed.zip on 02 Sep 16:01 collapse

English is so irregular, and it's annoying it's so dominant in global communications, even if I benefit. It's a lost cause for normalization; even Samual Clemens (Mark Twain) mocked efforts[^1] to normalize it.

oscardejarjayes@hexbear.net on 31 Aug 16:59 next collapse

They are For-profit

Þis is a silly þing to object to; you’re posting to !privacy, not !communism. Noþing about privacy implies communism, or even þe “F” in FOSS.

Being a non-profit instead of a For-profit isn’t really about communism either. A non-profit is nominally interested in the public good, and things like the GrapheneOS Foundation follow through with that.

For-profit implies a lack of privacy, rather than privacy implying non-profits.

Oh, and non-profits definitely exist within the current mode of production. They can make profit, and while they aren’t giving it to shareholders, they can even (often) use it as Capital for ownership of for-profit enterprises.

Danitos@reddthat.com on 31 Aug 17:21 collapse

For-profit implies a lack of privacy

Care to expand on how is this always the case?

oscardejarjayes@hexbear.net on 31 Aug 17:41 collapse

Privacy isn’t particularly profitable. Convenience is a way bigger market than privacy, and data is valuable. So, if you’re primary motive is profit, and especially if you have a fiduciary responsibility, it’s in your best interest not to respect the privacy of your users.

That’s not to say all for-profit companies are anti-privacy, or even on the same level, but it’s a mark against you.

Danitos@reddthat.com on 31 Aug 18:01 collapse

I ser your point, but that’s not an implication. There’s an incentive, but reality will depend on the company, specially in their size.

davel@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 18:45 collapse

Reporter: [REDACTED]
Reason: User uses special letters that look like a mix of q, b, p, and d making the comment near unreadable without having a stroke.

We know. Just downvote and move on.

s38b35M5@lemmy.world on 31 Aug 14:52 next collapse

Watching from the sidelines as a LOS ROM user, I’m disappointed by the replies from the devs. From mischaracterizing surprise, anger and generally negative feedback as positive praise to completely ignoring the two main asks of the community. For me, there are other red flags, but I’ll leave it alone.

Ego seems to be coming into play here, and the repeated references to GrapheneOS seem to reinforce that. Handwaving new and unique criticism as if it is a continuation of an older conflict is pretty poor form.

The basic issue as I see it (as a non-user of their platform) is to market your OS the way they do while also adding this feature without notice or explanation. Their claim that they want to stay relevant and include popular features is a straw man. There are other ways to implement it, and other ways to introduce it to the community. But that’s not relevant. Their explanation could be used to justify abandoning their stated objective of anti-big tech in any/all ways. Saying people want big corporate tech features is weak and obviously not in parity with the stated mission of privacy-first.

It’s not always the poor choices that sink user trust; sometimes it’s a tone deaf response or unexplained motives, or opaque financial incentive structure.

Sometimes it’s all of the above. This seems to be one of those cases.

Ty @Luffy879 for sharing.

E: spelling

JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz on 31 Aug 17:47 collapse

It is a continuation of an old conflict. Remember the Daniel Micay drama?

ZeDoTelhado@lemmy.world on 31 Aug 15:28 next collapse

send the DB entries of your Downvotes on a Thumb drive (or anything else from SSD to 3.5 inchHDD, depending on your preferences), and shove it up your rectum.

Do not threaten them with a good time

[deleted] on 31 Aug 17:40 collapse

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upstroke4448@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 31 Aug 15:58 next collapse

Every year people have to re-find out /e/ calyx and lineage were never focused on privacy and or security.

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 16:16 next collapse

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/8c1fe3ea-86e6-48e0-842e-c2c44dc75dbe.png">

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/7706132a-29ed-4c56-8b21-df32b154110a.png">

Privacy is the Main point spoken of in both the websites.

And don’t come up with some „but privacy means big tech and OpenAI isn’t big tech” bullcrap.

The word comes up 3 times in /e/, and the whole paragraph in Calyx is all about being spied on by big entities

krolden@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 16:32 collapse

Calyx is all about being spied on by big entities

?

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 18:29 collapse

Look at the friggin´ Screenshot of their website

Ilandar@lemmy.today on 01 Sep 08:43 next collapse

…?

What are we supposed to be looking at here?

krolden@lemmy.ml on 03 Sep 15:54 collapse

???

JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz on 31 Aug 17:58 collapse

Well, you can make LOS decently private with intelligent use, but you can forget about security. I use it on my Redmi 4X (originally with android 7, when AVB wasn’t even a thing yet), so the security is still better than the original firmware. It’s a tool to decent-ify security and usability of old hardware, it isnt a miracle or a hardened os.

ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 31 Aug 16:08 next collapse

Tried to view link, but the say html is enabled and I must use Javascript. Why do sites do that?

rumba@lemmy.zip on 31 Aug 23:42 collapse

Usually, it’s frameworks using JavaScript to render. Instead of the whole page coming down statically, they make a couple of database calls and render on templates.

It gives them a lot of options for dynamic content. But it really fucks up accessibility and security.

mathemachristian@hexbear.net on 31 Aug 17:30 next collapse

Come back DivestOS my beloved <img alt="niko-tear-wipe" src="https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/9553258e-87ef-4405-a9e0-1c8a2a45a3ea.png">

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 31 Aug 17:31 next collapse

GrapheneOS is fucking king a for a reason. The main dev was a cunt but he wasn't wrong.

Peoples need to learn to see through PR, good or bad, and focus on specs.

It seems after years of bullshit PR, we can safely say that GrapheneOS thesis stood the test of time.

Google took notice and now fighting us.

JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz on 31 Aug 17:43 next collapse

The main dev didn’t want to eat shit from the Teclore, CalyxOS team and Futo, so they bullied him to silence.

bitwolf@sh.itjust.works on 31 Aug 17:45 collapse

Wait FUTO bullied the maun dev as well? That’s a shame

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 31 Aug 17:51 next collapse

Luis Rossman got into with the main dev... At the time it seemed like Luis was right

However due what happened recently with calyx guy and how him and Luis have business connection.

I am reconsidering what actually happened back then.

GOS dev is socially inept but he was right from technical perspective and looks like he was bullied. So the lashing out might have been justified.

But like I said, maybe it it is time for us to look at substance over form. Shiti PR has been weaponized against peasant class.

Elites will literally tell you what you want to hear on tv while robbing you and the normies larp that propaganda as if they came up within.

With that being futo makes good product too

But graphene is clearly superior to CalyxOS

NotSteve_@piefed.ca on 31 Aug 20:34 collapse

I'm kind of out of the loop for everything outside of knowing about Grephene's existence. Is there a TL;DR or summary somewhere of what all happened? What was he right about?

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 31 Aug 20:42 next collapse

No tldr... I am just going off my memory as a shit poster

But to address your core request.

The degoogle privacy community has a running arguement regarding what's the best way to degoogle for privacy

Currently there are two options microg which spoofs GPS but still does some connections ie calyxOs approach among other RPMs

OR

Sandboxed GPS ie GrapheneOS approach. Where you just run the apps but gos limits what gps can track. You do need a Google account but it is easy to get a dummy.

As side note the best is gos with NO sandboxed gps but realistically normies joining the movement need GPS capabilities.

Either one is better than normie phone but if you care about privacy AND security, gos is king.

The improvements they made to android even gets upstreamed by Google creeps.

CalyxOS development is spotty. Obviously I support them two, extra options are good and they cover more phones.

Gos only does pixel, which is problematic but that's just what can be done currently.

NotSteve_@piefed.ca on 31 Aug 21:08 next collapse

Ah I see, thanks! It's really sad that ROM hardware support is so limited these days. I'd really love to run Graphene on S25 hardware :(

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 31 Aug 21:21 collapse

LineageOS covers a lot of devices but I can NOT recommend in good faith as a personal phone decide.

It is made in some weird development mode and can't lock the bootloader.

Both of these make very insecure if you lose physical control. It is a decent degoogle.

Sammy is going anti ROM and will prevent people from unlocking Bootloader going forward it seems.

On personal level, I would advise against focusing on hard ware. I used to be a hardware whore myself. But in 2025 privacy/security should be the defining factor in cell phone decision. I can't think of anything more personal.

alkaliv2@lemmy.world on 01 Sep 20:15 collapse

This is the BEST write up I have ever seen on the topic. Had no idea it was out there and explained a lot about the inner workings for security I wasn’t expecting.

reddit.com/…/a_discussion_about_bootloader_lockin…

portnull@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 Sep 22:22 collapse

Minor nit: you don’t need a Google account even with GPS. I have sandboxed GPS without an account and use aurora store for things I can’t get via obtanium/F-droid.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 01 Sep 22:45 collapse

This used to work for me but then they started forcing the play store too and account which then required an account. So I just stopped using GPS all together.

But thank you for pointing just goes to show experience can be different and people should play around for their set up.

For me now it is an ideological battle. Fuck Google

portnull@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 02 Sep 22:58 collapse

I didn’t want gps either but too many apps I rely on need it. Soooo took the path of least resistance in that case with a non logged in GPS on GrapheneOS. Its a shame it’s tradeoffs all the time with things like this

[deleted] on 01 Sep 08:39 collapse

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other8026@lemmy.ml on 02 Sep 01:19 collapse

Rossmann has only ever said that he no longer feels comfortable using GrapehenOS on his personal device due to Micay’s personal grudge.

Which was a lie. He kept using GrapheneOS for a long time after that. Even though targeted updates aren’t possible he left his video up with that disinformation anyway.

Rossmann has never even criticised GrapheneOS itself, only Micay.

He didn’t have to. All he needed to do was make people think the lead developer was crazy and that the OS isn’t trustworthy. His video has negatively affected GrapheneOS for sure. Still does considering comments like these…

he is an unhinged lunatic

and these.

[deleted] on 02 Sep 02:38 collapse

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other8026@lemmy.ml on 02 Sep 16:29 collapse

Me being a GrapheneOS moderator doesn’t change things. I’m a random person on the internet who was interested in the project and helped out in the community before joining the moderation team. All of the Rossmann stuff happened before I was a moderator.

I’m a GrapheneOS user and I am a member of the team. If I ever saw anything I had a problem with, I’d jump ship. All people I’ve met that are involved with the project are smart and dedicated. None of them are “lunatics”.

But since my affiliation with the project makes you think this way, I feel it’s only fair to point out that from where I’m standing I’m the one who’s being reasonable here. You’re the one who seems to have an odd, unwavering support for Rossmann or maybe an odd unwavering dislike for GrapheneOS. What are your affiliations? Why are you defending Rossmann’s harassment? Why are you using such over the top charged language about our team, such as calling us lunatics?

JamesBoeing737MAX@sopuli.xyz on 31 Aug 17:52 next collapse

Well, my previous statement was kinda misleading. Louis Rossman made ~2 vids about Micay being a dick to him and using autism as an excuse for his behaviour.

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 31 Aug 17:54 collapse

Rossman has joint financial interest with calyx guy who is now leaving calyx.

There is more to that story IMHO

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 18:19 collapse

I just dived into that rabbit hole, heres what I could understand until now:

  • Theres this Business guy, who owns/Controls much of the Calyx Infrastructure.

  • When Copperhead, a for Profit Company tried to buy up Graphene, the Calyx Guy was (according to Graphene Mastodon team) very prominent and they tried to pressure them into buying it up

  • Now it backfired for Calyx as the Business guy did a

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/83ff75ce-1ca4-43d4-bfdb-5c0c22b46ac9.jpeg">

  • On the team, and now they have to change all the Infrastructure and Keys in order to make their workflow secure again

  • Louis has a Telecom Company with that dude as co-founder, apparently according to some legal document

  • Also, very many other OSs have a Problem with Graphene, as they want to be the next Private ROM, but they just wont put in the Time to do anything more then fork Linaege and add their own Propriatery stuff (looking at you, Iode), so they very often try to make alligations against Graphene, only to be completely wrong

Tbh, I just dont get ROMs, just because you cant beat Graphene dosent mean that everyone needs the kind of Security Graphene gives you. Just dont fuck up, no matter how hard it apparently is.

Ilandar@lemmy.today on 01 Sep 10:09 collapse

iodéOS has never made allegations against GrapheneOS. You are spreading so much conspiracy disinformation in this thread, it’s crazy you haven’t been called out more for it.

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[deleted] on 31 Aug 17:49 next collapse

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rumba@lemmy.zip on 01 Sep 02:55 collapse

Yeah, the context aware thing is killing me.

But the fact that it can tell where commas go and not overcorrect is pretty decent.

DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 18:18 next collapse

It isn’t even April 1st.

ragas@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 21:33 next collapse

What the fuck are you talking about? You can find the source codr of the e/os apps here: gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/

There is nothing proprietary about them.

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 21:46 next collapse

I am talking about their backup services and such.

Afaik, their Photos and file Backup Servers are neither Open Source nor encrypted in any way

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 31 Aug 21:47 collapse

You can find some source code there. Has it got anything to do with e? Maybe. Maybe not.

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 31 Aug 21:46 next collapse

/e/os plays all of your voice capturs on the PA system in the los angeles city parks.

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 21:49 collapse

Well, since OpenAIs chatGPT is known to sometimes leak info, that could just happen some day

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 31 Aug 21:55 collapse

True enough, although I believe that some agent would still be behind it.

OboTheHobo@ttrpg.network on 31 Aug 22:01 next collapse

Ok, the openAI thing is not great. However…

they advertise themselves as degoogled, but instead let you connect to Google/Microsoft/etc services

What the fuck are you talking about? Degoogled doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be allowed to connect to Google services. It just mean that it doesn’t require Google services to function and that the default configuration shouldn’t include any Google services. If the end user actively wants to use google/microsoft/etc services then they should be able to. It seems as though you are advocating for an open source operating system to lock itself down from allowing the end user to use certain features, which is against the FOSS ethos. Remember, “free” as in “freedom.”

BlameTheAntifa@lemmy.world on 31 Aug 22:51 next collapse

More people need to use and support UBports.

libre_warrior@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 22:54 next collapse

It’s open source, so it’s fine.

[deleted] on 01 Sep 14:16 next collapse

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libre_warrior@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 14:17 collapse

I put this comment out to check how brainwashed people are. Just because something is open source doesn’t mean that the software in it’s totality is good. It’s a good place to start for sure, but we need to delve deeper into what we demand from our software.

infjarchninja@lemmy.ml on 31 Aug 23:31 next collapse

I am a right muppet. I recommended e/OS a few days ago.

heres me old 12 year old Samsung S4.

Its got the e/OS, recovery-e-2.2-r-20240719418592-dev-jfltexx running with android 11

Those were that days. 16gb with 2gb ram, a fucking powerhouse, and more importantly, no fucking ai shit

I should say its my kitchen timer.

No more udates.

Working like a charm, battery last a week.

looks like I wont be using anymore of e/OS roms.

Half my family have e/OS installed.

I will be busy removing e/OS, and that ai shit with it, over the next few days.

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/2573f24c-a97b-486f-b5ac-a721cc4682ec.jpeg">

blackfire@lemmy.world on 01 Sep 08:55 next collapse

In the thread they give their reasons and they are believeable. If you don’t want to use what’s offered SWAP IT. The default is for gen pop who want a useful phone with no threat model other than wanting less google. If you want something else then use that stop raging that is is somehow totally out of order how dare they. Its childish.

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 08:56 next collapse

This is a FUD post. Honestly this is just doing a disservice to privacy in general.

Of course /e/OS is not perfect but the title is wrong (/e/OS didn’t suddenly start sending data to OpenAI without user permission, they are relying on OpenAI for a service that is optional PLUS they are explicitly saying that they setup a proxy to anonymize content!) but the content is also wrong :

  • of course they “let” you connect to whatever you want. What they do though by default is block trackers within apps including things like Google analytics. I imagine most people who buy a deGoogle phone from them will NOT want to use Google/Microsoft/etc services but if somehow they have to, e.g. a Google Meet meeting, then it’s nice that they can. This is a ridiculous take.
  • they replace services and their work is open source gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/ if something is somewhat missing you can just open an issue and request it. If they do provide server services they do not have to provide the code for it (even if they should IMHO) but here again just request it publicly. The goal is to help them do better, not “scold” them. Still here please share what’s actually missing rather than making grand claims.
  • they are for-profit, so what? They have a foundation that managers /e/OS itself so AFAICT Murena is to sell phones with installed /e/OS so you can skip that entirely and not give them 1 cent. Even funding like NLNet (which IMHO is some of the best as the project gets to decide on milestones, they are just funding FOSS) encourage projects to have sustainable source of income, what’s your solution there? That they get bought by Google? Do you personally have the kind of money to make them sustainable for years if not decade?
  • there is an obsession with getting the very latest updates on the deGoogle community. Yes patching security holes is fundamental to privacy but it’s also NOT the only thing that matters. They are doing their best to catch up but if you have a solution, e.g. a better CD/CI system please do contribute.

TL;DR: /e/OS is not perfect but it’s damn well better than Google!

Also important clarification, the Murena services (backup, STT highlighted there, etc) are NOT MANDATORY! When you boot you can decide to use them, make an account, etc (yes, like other services, including Google) but you just as well refuse and use your device. There is NO account required. The goal is to help people who are not yet self-hosting everything have an alternative rather than… have nothing then give up and fallback to iOS or Googled Android.

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 09:18 next collapse

Of course /e/OS is not perfect

Let me stop you here.

Every phone /e/ supports, Lineage or calyx supports too. Lineage and Calyx are both non profit, implement an actually secure Backup system by default, and do not try to sell you a subscription.

So why should I be defending a company that’s worse then the Alternative, that’s obligated to extract the most possible profit from its costumers, that says it is Private, yet sends your backup and Photos unencrypted to murena servers?

And no, you can’t jUsT uSe aNoThEr bAcKuP sErViCe. These require root access by default, so you can’t just install Seedvault.

Also, I don’t give a fuck if the data to OpenAI is proxied or not. OpenAI is still not Private, and Murena has other, on device, Open source Voice to text options. Yet they, the self proclaimed Private OS, rely on a non private service

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 09:47 collapse

let me stop you here.

… So why should I be defending a company that’s worse then the Alternative, that’s obligated to extract the most possible profit from its costumers, that says it is Private, yet sends your backup and Photos unencrypted to murena servers?

You’d have benefited from not stopping there, at least reading the bold parts : nobody has to use Murena servers. You turn on the device, say no, use whatever alternative services you want, that’s it. What Murena (not /e/OS) offers is buying a phone with a working deGoogled Android device. There is a market for that. You don’t have to buy from them and it’s enough. You can criticize it as much as you want, here and elsewhere, and honestly your criticism is welcomed so that they can improve, just don’t make things up.

Source : I’m backing up my photos locally with Immich, no Murena account, no Murena services.

Edit: thanks for sharing github.com/seedvault-app/seedvault looks interesting.

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 11:53 next collapse

nobody has to use Murena servers.

Im just saying, that Murena, with their current services, is in no way better than Google. Also, that can change at any time, since the one making the Services and the one making the OS is the same Murena, so theres nothing stopping them to vertically integrate their Services more and more, until it becomes the only real option

just like Google and Apple did it.

Google started as a company that gave extraordinary Services for cheap to people, and only once it got popular, they started selling user data and doing questionable shit as result of them not really caring about Data Security and storing data unencrypted on their Servers.

Murena is a company that is giving extraordinary Services for sometimes Cheaper than the non Privacy friendly option, and once it gets popular, they still will be reserving the right to start selling user data and do Questionable shit as a result of them not caring about Data Security and storing data unencrypted on their Servers.

Yes, they did not sell your data. Yet. They did not release your Data to authorities. Yet. Their Service, being unencrypted, baked deep into the OS (with their Backup) shows just how much they could go that route at any time, and by having a mostly noobie audience, they wont get much shit for it probably

For me, its just like the Mastodon vs. Bluesky thing

Yes, /e/ is currently better than Google, but /e/ can turn as bad as Google any time. Unlike something like Proton or other Backup systems, since they have the option to encrypt your Photos and therefore make them Availible only to the user.

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 14:09 collapse

Murena, with their current services, is in no way better than Google.

Honestly you seem to understand the technical side of things but I don’t think you fully grasp the economical scale of Google. Murena is literally nobody, like 10 guys in a small shop in Paris, the CEO walking around, few extra staff international, some contributions here and there, it’s not symbolic and I don’t want to diminish their effort but it’s really tiny. Your local supermarket probably has more staff than they do!

Meanwhile… Alphabet who owns Google is nearly ~200k people on payrolls, thousands more outsourced via 3rd party services (e.g. data annotation, social network “cleaning”, etc) and the 4th largest corporation in market capital.

Honestly the comparison is not even apple versus orange.

Same for Apple, 3rd market cap, ~150k employees.

Yet… maybe more importantly, Murena has 0 lock-in, none. Meanwhile Apple and Google literally own the mobile market. It’s practically impossible to buy a phone without at some point using one of these 2.

So finding imperfections in /e/OS and Murena is fine, again hopefully helping them to grow out of those potential problems, but the comparison … I don’t even know why do it in the first place. Murena literally can not become Google.

Count042@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 15:12 next collapse

Google and Apple were once the 10 employee nobodies going against behemoths.

Google also used to have no lock in, as well. It’s original selling point was an open ecosystem with no lock in, unlike Apple.

You’re like a walking definition of ‘those who do not know history are doomed to repeat it’

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 17:14 collapse

Check my post history, I often link to Information Rules: A Strategic Guide to the Network Economy by Carl Shapiro and Hal R. Varian that precisely has chapters on lock-in. If you are not aware who Hal Varian is he was Chief Economist at Google. I don’t know how much you think you know about “history” but I’m sure you do not know what I did study or not on the topic.

PS: if one day Murena becomes the size of Google or Apple according to pretty much any metric, I’ll buy you a bottle of Champagne and kiss your feet to apologize of my naivety. You can archive that post.

Count042@lemmy.ml on 02 Sep 06:17 collapse

Nothing you wrote was a response to what I wrote.

I also don’t care what you ‘studied’. I lived it. Google and Apple were literally, and this is a quantifiable fact and not an opinion as you seem to be treating it in your response, the 10 person startups that were going against industry behemoths.

Yahoo was, at the time, was a Juggernaut.

I.B.M., at the time, was a Juggernaut.

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 02 Sep 16:05 collapse

Just blocked… you don’t seem to care for a proper polite conversation so no matter what you know, or think you know, that might make you special is not worth it for me. I don’t have any need for toxicity.

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 15:28 collapse

Google was just a comparison. Of course Murena will not become as strong globally, but if we look at it relatively to the Costum ROM community, they have quite a fair share already.

Don’t take everything literally. I just said, that having the track record that /e/ has regarding actual Privacy and not relying on big tech, which dosent take much effort since they literally fork LinaegeOS, which already dosent rely on big tech, I don’t think its a good idea to let them become any stronger than they need to be, since, like I just pointed out

Murena does not do any substancial Development of Costum Roms. They just take Linaege, remove all the Open source software like Seedvault, and instead implement their own security nightmares.

And no, tracker blocking is not a good reason to make your own Costum Rom. There are literal free apps on Fdroid which do it already, and better. Don’t like it? Switch to the DNS server of adguard, they do that too. Or mullvad. Or whatever.

Murena as a company is literally a leech just like Iode, which Attach themselves to Linaege (which dosent say they are Private at all), add a fucking DNS blocker, call it a day, and act like they just made Linaege Private.

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 17:21 collapse

Murena or Iode aren’t about development or customization, it’s about being able to actually buy a phone and use it without Google services, no tinkering. You might not be the audience, you might have other criteria for what constitute privacy, but basically if you can AND want to install a custom ROM, you are not their market.

None of the actors you mentioned, e.g. LineageOS, AdGuard, MullVad, SeedVault, and all the other “OS” in the name, etc do that so it’s not relevant. I’m not saying they are not important but it’s a different product entirely.

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 17:37 collapse

There are 3rd Party stores for Those too.

Its just not plastered on the Main page of the project

But I wouldnt argue that if you already want a degoogled phone, you have researched enough to at least know where to Ask for such websites

MotoAsh@lemmy.world on 01 Sep 21:44 collapse

There is ample validity to complaining about pushing for profit services, though. Just like we all hate MS for pushing an online account for Windows, we shouldn’t be blanket accepting someone pushing a service here either.

Making it truly optional is great, but it’s still promotion.

autonomoususer@lemmy.world on 01 Sep 20:59 collapse

Say less. You do not fight efficiently.

open source

Libre software. ‘Open source’ is a deliberately ambiguous phrase, engineered to derail libre software.

they are for-profit, so what? They have a foundation that managers /e/OS itself so AFAICT Murena is to sell phones with installed /e/OS so you can skip that entirely and not give them 1 cent. Even funding like NLNet (which IMHO is some of the best as the project gets to decide on milestones, they are just funding FOSS) encourage projects to have sustainable source of income, what’s your solution there? That they get bought by Google? Do you personally have the kind of money to make them sustainable for years if not decade?

Selling libre software is good. Stay on target.

lemmy.world/post/35312231

marcie@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 15:40 next collapse

GrapheneOs continuing to be the only unclowned rom

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 15:53 next collapse

Linaege and Calyx is OK too, since they actually develope software (Linaege does it from scratch, Calyx develops Seedvault etc). even though they are not as rigid as Graphene, they are still ok for normal ungoogled stuff, and to be honest, most people dont need the security Graphene provides them with.

My problem is with Roms like /E/ OS or Iode, which essentially add nothing of value, but instead Fork Linaege, remove Seedvault and everything what isn’t essential, and sell what is essentially a DNS blocker (which you can just use on your VPN slot via apps like DNSnet, or Server side like Adguard or Mullvad DNS) as a new ROM, complete with Subscription Service and (in the case of E OS) even with non encrypted Backup, essentially begging someone to compromise their Servers and steal peoples Photos and Data.

marcie@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 19:01 collapse

Isn’t calyx dead now

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 19:04 next collapse

A lead Dev has left and now they have to rebuild much of their workflow, it will only take 4-6 months according to them

rapchee@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 05:55 collapse

they need new encryption keys for the new lead devs, but that takes months, so it is “dead” for however long that takes

WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today on 01 Sep 16:53 next collapse

If you can’t read the entire line of code, and didn’t fab your own PC, you can’t garantee it.

marcie@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 22:12 next collapse

Pretty ridiculous take I can wire sniff everything coming out of my house and Linux (I use fedora Atomic) and GrapheneOs solve any sort of tracking issues. Then you just have only your ISP to worry about, and that can be solved with appropriate vpn, vps, and/or tor setups

Edit oh you’re a bit account

autonomoususer@lemmy.world on 01 Sep 22:52 collapse

You’re letting them troll you. It’s far more simple. See part 4: lemmy.world/post/35312231

autonomoususer@lemmy.world on 01 Sep 20:49 collapse

Blatant lie, classic disinformation, who told you to read it alone?

When it bans us forking it, we do not control it, guaranteed. lmao

WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today on 02 Sep 05:22 collapse

Ok, you know best bud.

CitricBase@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 05:05 collapse

Graphene is the biggest joke of them all. Only works on Google hardware? lmao

Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 11:16 next collapse

lemmy.world/post/27344091

Hardware-level components like Titan M can execute processes that users cannot audit or disable, raising concerns about opaque data collection.

CitricBase@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 00:08 next collapse

Creepy. Fixed link: lemmy.world/post/27344091

Tehdastehdas@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 06:24 collapse

I fixed mine too. Copy-pasting from email broke it.

Skorp@sh.itjust.works on 03 Sep 15:15 collapse

It is an isolated component without networking. This is not evidence that unknown data collection is occurring. You need to provide actual evidence that it is.

CitricBase@lemmy.world on 03 Sep 20:43 collapse

You need to provide actual evidence that it is.

How do you expect me, or anyone else, to provide you with the inner working details of Google’s surreptitiously closed-as-fuck custom SoCs? That’s the entire basis of the problem, it’s closed-as-fuck and there is nothing that you or I or anyone else can do to verify that it isn’t malicious.

At this point, you have to choose whether or not to trust the manufacturer. Given that the manufacturer is the most notoriously data-hungry surveillance corporation in the history of the entire world, I choose not to trust them. I wouldn’t trust them, even if they were to claim not to spy on us with these phones. (Incidentally, that is not something they claim.)

Skorp@sh.itjust.works on 03 Sep 21:31 collapse

Open source or source availability is not a requirement for auditing a system. There would be evidence that would have almost certainly been found by now if this was the case. It is up to you, or the claimant, to prove their claims. I can say that there has not been any evidence of data collection by hardware components found, despite years of Pixel devices being tested by security researchers and mobile forensics companies. Not only that, the actual technical capabilities of the hardware (isolated component without networking capabilities) backs that up.

What do you have except fearmongering?

other8026@lemmy.ml on 02 Sep 21:43 next collapse

That’s because they’re the only ones that meet the project’s requirements at the moment, but that may soon change soon. Maybe you’ve seen the news that the project is in talks with an OEM for them to meet the requirements and have official support for GrapheneOS for some of the existing devices.

Xttweaponttx@sh.itjust.works on 03 Sep 11:53 next collapse

THANK YOU! Such a glaring hole in graphene os, I dont know how it doesnt get talked about more!

Skorp@sh.itjust.works on 03 Sep 15:17 collapse

There is no “hole”. It has nothing to do specifically with being from Google, only that no one else but Google is manufacturing devices that meet the hardware requirements and have full support for alternate OSes.

krolden@lemmy.ml on 03 Sep 17:12 collapse

no u

WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today on 01 Sep 16:52 next collapse

Oh nice! Now anyone can frame me for any crime, using AI generated videos!

MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 01 Sep 20:23 next collapse

Why is letting you connect to services bad? Choices are always good.

int32@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 Sep 22:45 collapse

I don’t think you have the option to use something else.

MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 02 Sep 01:26 collapse

Couldn’t you just install whatever apps you want for the services you use?

int32@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 02 Sep 10:38 collapse

yeah, but the app only supports openai, you can’t just switch to a local ai.

MangoPenguin@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 02 Sep 15:31 collapse

I’m confused now, I thought we were talking about the bit here “let you connect to Google/Microsoft/etc services”

But either way, you can also install another app that does let you connect to local AI if you want to use that kind of thing.

int32@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 03 Sep 14:11 collapse

yeah, sorry ig I misread.

DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 21:11 next collapse

Use GrapheneOS or AOSP GSI if you’re not on Pixel.

int32@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 01 Sep 22:45 collapse

never heard of AOSP GSI, I’m on CalyxOS rn but I might temporarily switch because they’re unmaintained while doing their audit.

DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml on 02 Sep 07:56 collapse

This is the site you should visit for GSI info: github.com/TrebleDroid/…/wiki

int32@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 02 Sep 10:37 collapse

so, GSI is just android with fast updates and the possibility to only have foss or have no apps? that’s not what I need, I want a system with microg or nothing instead of google services, only foss apps but ideally no apps preinstalled(that, GSI can do) and also privacy features like microphone and camera blocking. I think I’ll just use lineage, or install a real linux on it.

Xttweaponttx@sh.itjust.works on 03 Sep 12:03 collapse

Real Linux is definitely the way - but GSI Roms are totally capable of microG if I’m not mistaken! On that github’s FAQ page it mentions the FLOSS version comes packed with f-droid; microG can be installed from there and works fine - it doesnt need to be bundled in the ROM! 🙂

Or just stick with the vanilla gsi & you’ve got bare aosp. Throw F-droid on there, pull down microG and bam!

jsomae@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 21:31 next collapse

They are For-profit

Reminder that FOSS is compatible with commercial licenses.

That is not to say /e/ is FOSS. But given the reality of the capitalist hellscape we live in, we should not shame developers (FOSS or not) for not opting to work for free.

[deleted] on 01 Sep 21:46 next collapse

.

Luffy879@lemmy.ml on 01 Sep 21:46 collapse

Non profit dosent mean everyone who works there cant earn money.

It just means, that you as Shareholder cant just sit on your ass and collect the revenue from your company.

If you own a non profit, and you work as for example a Dev or the head of PR, you can still have a hefty 30$/hour salary.

And the other way around, having a For profit just tells me that you do so little, that you can’t even justify employing yourself at a non profit and giving you an own salary that way, because a non profit has to disclose just how much money you give yourself while underpaying your workers

sunzu2@thebrainbin.org on 02 Sep 01:21 collapse

30$/hr

In 2025 america ain't really money for somebody with a skill set to do this type of work in the US at least.

Otherwise agree. But realistically Foss will need to outcompete corpos commercially and that requires normies to make these consumption choice while Foss gains mass market appeal.

Obviously fedi is pro FOSS but we are just a rounding error as of now.

phoenixz@lemmy.ca on 02 Sep 16:35 collapse

30 /hour would be a laughably low salary for someone doing that type of development, I would not call that “hefty”

CaptPretentious@lemmy.world on 02 Sep 06:09 collapse

Being serious, what is /e/ ?

Blisterexe@lemmy.zip on 02 Sep 06:32 collapse

Alternative version of android that removes google stuff, basically.