but why? there is not valid reason to remove only DeepSeek, they should remove AI all together including Gemini and ChatGPT
MolecularCactus1324@lemmy.world
on 28 Jun 2025 19:38
nextcollapse
Okay, then tell them that. I’m just saying urging is stupid. Lawmakers can make laws.
sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
on 28 Jun 2025 21:04
collapse
Everyone here knows that not how policy is made.
US corpos tell EU what they need, EU does it. China does not have such sway with EU with some exceptions.
Your regime whore politician would not take a piss on you, if you were on fire.
rockSlayer@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 28 Jun 2025 19:45
collapse
It’s a cold war thing
ModernRisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 28 Jun 2025 19:26
nextcollapse
Genuine question; what’s the difference between DeepSeek gathering data and for example ChatGPT or Gemini?
Three of them are (I assume) great for usage but disastrous regard privacy and data.
stink@lemmygrad.ml
on 28 Jun 2025 19:32
nextcollapse
Yes but you see a white man having control of your data is much better than a colored one!
kionite231@lemmy.ca
on 28 Jun 2025 19:35
nextcollapse
Genuine question; what’s the difference between DeepSeek gathering data and for example ChatGPT or Gemini?
because China bad and USA good :(
comrade_twisty@feddit.org
on 28 Jun 2025 20:13
collapse
I mean we can generally agree that China is worse. That doesn’t mean we should willingly donate our data to the US, but if you have to choose between amputating your foot or your little toe it’s an easy decision.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 28 Jun 2025 20:38
nextcollapse
I mean we can generally agree that China is worse.
Can we? Which country had open sourced it’s models and weightings so that the LLM can be run locally and spyfree?
gaylord_fartmaster@lemmy.world
on 28 Jun 2025 20:53
nextcollapse
I run deepseek locally so obviously I appreciate that they made that decision, but let’s not pretend that something can’t be given away for free with bad intentions. People running LLMs locally are a drop in the bucket compared to people just downloading an app.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 19:33
collapse
Bad intentions? The Chinese government Deepseek showed that the OpenAI emperor had no clothes.
gaylord_fartmaster@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 20:49
collapse
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. That means they have good intentions with the data they’re collecting about the users of their mobile apps?
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 21:24
nextcollapse
The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t think the CCP cares about the users of deepseek mobile app when they already have an ocean of data from tiktok. That’s the real trojan horse.
Mobile access to an LLM is a similarity.
The big difference between chatgpt and deepseek is the open model weights.
gaylord_fartmaster@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 22:03
nextcollapse
You think them already invasively farming user data from tiktok somehow makes them less likely to do the same thing with another app, and not more likely?
If someone stole $1000 from you and then asked to borrow $20, would you give it to them? Surely they won’t steal that too, they already have $1000.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 22:33
collapse
I’m not saying it’s less likely. I’m saying there is a completely different reason for deepseek to exist.
Diurnambule@jlai.lu
on 29 Jun 2025 21:43
nextcollapse
That mean they have at least less bad intentions than chatgpt at least the opened their model on contrary of chatgpt.
gaylord_fartmaster@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 22:13
collapse
It does not mean that at all. Nothing about choosing to release a model for free or not has any bearing on whether or not the app will respect the privacy of its users.
OpenAI could feel like they’re making enough money off of their proprietary model that they don’t need to collect data (I’m not saying this is likely), while DeepSeek could have released the model for free hoping mass adoption leads to more app downloads and more data to harvest. I don’t assume either has good intentions.
Thanks for putting other word in my mouth. I never told any of both have good intention, but at least deepseek didn’t promise to release the model to change it’s mind and close source it.
Feel that it is a little better than chatgpt, since they didn’t shit on the face of the community yet.
I am sure both collect data, and I wouldn’t thrust them with sensitive informations.
DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml
on 30 Jun 2025 15:52
collapse
I have no idea what point you’re trying to make.
It’s a reference to a fairy tale called Emperor’s new clothes.
HelloRoot@lemy.lol
on 28 Jun 2025 20:55
nextcollapse
France, Mistral. There are also many others in US and worldwide.
China is worse when comparing many other factors, but if ALL you care about is whether the model weights are os, then it is usually not decided by countries, but rather companies.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 28 Jun 2025 22:10
collapse
There are also many others in US and worldwide.
We are comparing chatGPT and Deepseek.
China is worse when comparing many other factors
Again, not an opinion everyone agrees on. And this very much depends on which factors are cherry picked.
but if ALL you care about is whether the model weights are os,
If you want privacy then you need to run locally, and to run locally all you do care about is model weights.
then it is usually not decided by countries, but rather companies.
Not sure why this dimension is worth adding to the discussion.
Ilandar@lemmy.today
on 29 Jun 2025 10:12
nextcollapse
We are comparing chatGPT and Deepseek.
Then why are you asking binary questions about countries? Meta released open source models and weights way before DeepSeek, but I guess that wouldn’t fit into your “China is better” narrative so we’ll just pretend Llama never happened.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 16:38
collapse
Then why are you asking binary questions about countries
Because a highly opinionated binary statement was made about China. I’m not saying China is better than the US. I’m saying it’s not worse.
Only people who don’t have their heads buried in the sand. You can’t possibly believe China is not much much worse than the US. I literally don’t believe you. You’re a bot or a paid actor.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 16:35
nextcollapse
You asked “which countries”.
Countries and LLM model providers associated with those countries.
All openai data goes to the NSA
Online deepseek data goes to the CCP. Local models stay private.
You can’t possibly believe China is not much much worse than the US.
When it comes to AI models, China is streets ahead in openness.
But if you are introducing other factors, ask an Iranian what they prefer; money from China or bombs from the US and vassal states?
The only people believing that Americans are superior in everything are Americans.
When it comes to AI models, China is streets ahead in openness.
No one was talking about openness, we were talking about data collection.
All openai data goes to the NSA
Online deepseek data goes to the CCP. Local models stay private.
You’re comparing online models with local models. Local OpenAI models are also private.
The only people believing that Americans are superior in everything are Americans.
Good thing no one said that. It’s not just America either. Most countries are significantly more free than China (and Russia and North Korea), and if you don’t believe that, you need to open your eyes.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 18:25
collapse
No one was talking about openness, we were talking about data collection.
The only way to ensure no data collection is to run locally, which requires openness.
You’re comparing online models with local models.
Correct
Local OpenAI models are also private.
They don’t exist, and privacy cannot be guaranteed.
Good thing no one said that. It’s not just America either.
So you do think that.
Most countries are significantly more free than China (and Russia and North Korea),
The word used was “worse” which is highly subjective.
and if you don’t believe that, you need to open your eyes.
Residents of “the land of the free” don’t understand irony.
Okay at this point its pretty clear you have no intention of good faith discussion and want to constantly redirect the conversation to a strawman argument so I’m going to bail.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world
on 29 Jun 2025 18:49
collapse
Dude, you are the one inserting words like “freedom” trying to slide the conversation.
China is not worse
, principally because worse is unmeasurable.
There’s plenty of nuance but that’s not relevant in generalities.
there’s a lot of good happening there too.
No one said it’s all bad. There’s lots of good everywhere. That doesn’t mean everywhere is an equally good place.
Have you been to China? If not, you should 100% go and check it out for yourself!
What am I going to find out by going there that I can’t read about? That I’ve been lied to? That the CCP isn’t blocking information about Tianenmen Square and other govt atrocities? That the mere act of protesting isn’t illegal? That they aren’t murdering dissidents? Privacy in it’s entirety isn’t illegal?
chatgpt and gemini gather data for the US govt, which is the one actively fucking europe over at the moment. so clearly, deepseek is what they need to worry about.
RmDebArc_5@sh.itjust.works
on 29 Jun 2025 13:43
collapse
AFAIK per EU law the collected data has to stay in data centers in the EU, ChatGPT and Gemini at least pretend to conform while Deepseek explicitly states that the data is stored in Chinese data centers.
surph_ninja@lemmy.world
on 28 Jun 2025 20:10
nextcollapse
Germany’s going hard right again. Severe crackdowns on civil rights are escalating. They’re arresting people for posting criticism of political efforts online, ramping up their military, pushing far-right politicians into office, etc.
Time to eradicate the Nazis again.
far_university1990@reddthat.com
on 28 Jun 2025 20:30
nextcollapse
Bist du dumm oder sowas?
KimBongUn420@lemmy.ml
on 29 Jun 2025 11:10
collapse
Cope lol
sunzu2@thebrainbin.org
on 28 Jun 2025 21:01
nextcollapse
ramping up their military
Naive take on this point tbh... Germany is being forced by its allies to do its share for the alliance. I am sure Germany's nazi nepo baby leadership would rather be buying Russian gas right now to drive its industrial base but geopolitics are a bitch lol
This is so pathetic now.
US companies does " pretend" to storage data in Europe, then, 4 years later a couple of them are found out they did not (others did too but were not found to doing so) and an investigation and lawsuit is brought up and 6 years later found guilty and penalized a maximum of 10% of profits for that year (so effectively 1% profit/yr cost of business). Profits brought by the breach of European safeguards… tens times more than the potential penalties. Any CEO has to, by law, give the maximum profits to their investors, and they are just doing that.
But of course, the EU just won’t do that litigation dance with the Chinese companies, the EU knows well it is just a scam to pretend doing something to protect europeans… to Chinese companies, because US does not like, the EU just ban them. The EU will never ban a US company, no matter how many violations they do.
Oh for sure! No doubt, at least makes people conscious of that.
Now, the larger companies don’t have any problem bypassing the EU law and the incentives are mainly untouched for them to change.
Exactm every company in the RU is forced by law to fullfit the minimum of the GDPR to be able to sell their product, the fines are high, even for Google, MS and META, Nusk even said taking X out of the EU (I would approve it).
US want to ban TikTok, because it’s a Chinese company, it has nothing to do with privacy, while in the EU a service must fullfit the GDPR to be allowed to offer their service in the EU and DeepSeek, among others, don’t. This has a lot to do with the privacy rights in the EU, those which in the USA don’t exist, not with censorship.
Privacy is a basic right in the EU and not even the Police can access sensible personal data or track your activity without an court order, less aprivate company for advertising reasons or for training their AIs.
But yes, right wing politicians in Germany want to change this, but this isn’t so easy in a working Democracy where it need to be approved with a majorit in th Bundestag.
threaded - newest
They can pretty easily just pass a law banning it and Apple and Google will remove it from the German app store
This is just xenophobia and political posturing, actual policy is too much to ask.
but why? there is not valid reason to remove only DeepSeek, they should remove AI all together including Gemini and ChatGPT
Okay, then tell them that. I’m just saying urging is stupid. Lawmakers can make laws.
Everyone here knows that not how policy is made.
US corpos tell EU what they need, EU does it. China does not have such sway with EU with some exceptions.
Your regime whore politician would not take a piss on you, if you were on fire.
It’s a cold war thing
Genuine question; what’s the difference between DeepSeek gathering data and for example ChatGPT or Gemini?
Three of them are (I assume) great for usage but disastrous regard privacy and data.
Yes but you see a white man having control of your data is much better than a colored one!
because China bad and USA good :(
I mean we can generally agree that China is worse. That doesn’t mean we should willingly donate our data to the US, but if you have to choose between amputating your foot or your little toe it’s an easy decision.
Can we? Which country had open sourced it’s models and weightings so that the LLM can be run locally and spyfree?
I run deepseek locally so obviously I appreciate that they made that decision, but let’s not pretend that something can’t be given away for free with bad intentions. People running LLMs locally are a drop in the bucket compared to people just downloading an app.
Bad intentions?
The Chinese governmentDeepseek showed that the OpenAI emperor had no clothes.I have no idea what point you’re trying to make. That means they have good intentions with the data they’re collecting about the users of their mobile apps?
The point I’m trying to make is that I don’t think the CCP cares about the users of deepseek mobile app when they already have an ocean of data from tiktok. That’s the real trojan horse.
Mobile access to an LLM is a similarity. The big difference between chatgpt and deepseek is the open model weights.
You think them already invasively farming user data from tiktok somehow makes them less likely to do the same thing with another app, and not more likely?
If someone stole $1000 from you and then asked to borrow $20, would you give it to them? Surely they won’t steal that too, they already have $1000.
I’m not saying it’s less likely. I’m saying there is a completely different reason for deepseek to exist.
Lol the real ones have long been on 小红书
That mean they have at least less bad intentions than chatgpt at least the opened their model on contrary of chatgpt.
It does not mean that at all. Nothing about choosing to release a model for free or not has any bearing on whether or not the app will respect the privacy of its users.
OpenAI could feel like they’re making enough money off of their proprietary model that they don’t need to collect data (I’m not saying this is likely), while DeepSeek could have released the model for free hoping mass adoption leads to more app downloads and more data to harvest. I don’t assume either has good intentions.
Thanks for putting other word in my mouth. I never told any of both have good intention, but at least deepseek didn’t promise to release the model to change it’s mind and close source it. Feel that it is a little better than chatgpt, since they didn’t shit on the face of the community yet. I am sure both collect data, and I wouldn’t thrust them with sensitive informations.
It’s a reference to a fairy tale called Emperor’s new clothes.
France, Mistral. There are also many others in US and worldwide.
China is worse when comparing many other factors, but if ALL you care about is whether the model weights are os, then it is usually not decided by countries, but rather companies.
We are comparing chatGPT and Deepseek.
Again, not an opinion everyone agrees on. And this very much depends on which factors are cherry picked.
If you want privacy then you need to run locally, and to run locally all you do care about is model weights.
Not sure why this dimension is worth adding to the discussion.
Then why are you asking binary questions about countries? Meta released open source models and weights way before DeepSeek, but I guess that wouldn’t fit into your “China is better” narrative so we’ll just pretend Llama never happened.
Because a highly opinionated binary statement was made about China. I’m not saying China is better than the US. I’m saying it’s not worse.
You asked “which countries”.
Only people who don’t have their heads buried in the sand. You can’t possibly believe China is not much much worse than the US. I literally don’t believe you. You’re a bot or a paid actor.
Countries and LLM model providers associated with those countries.
All openai data goes to the NSA
Online deepseek data goes to the CCP. Local models stay private.
When it comes to AI models, China is streets ahead in openness.
But if you are introducing other factors, ask an Iranian what they prefer; money from China or bombs from the US and vassal states?
The only people believing that Americans are superior in everything are Americans.
No one was talking about openness, we were talking about data collection.
You’re comparing online models with local models. Local OpenAI models are also private.
Good thing no one said that. It’s not just America either. Most countries are significantly more free than China (and Russia and North Korea), and if you don’t believe that, you need to open your eyes.
The only way to ensure no data collection is to run locally, which requires openness.
Correct
They don’t exist, and privacy cannot be guaranteed.
So you do think that.
The word used was “worse” which is highly subjective.
Residents of “the land of the free” don’t understand irony.
Okay at this point its pretty clear you have no intention of good faith discussion and want to constantly redirect the conversation to a strawman argument so I’m going to bail.
Dude, you are the one inserting words like “freedom” trying to slide the conversation.
China is not worse , principally because worse is unmeasurable.
Wow nuance much?
Yes, China has problems with authoritarianism, and curtailing free speech and such.
But, there’s a lot of good happening there too.
It’s not black and white.
USA v. China is not Gondor v. Mordor.
Have you been to China?
If not, you should 100% go and check it out for yourself!
There’s plenty of nuance but that’s not relevant in generalities.
No one said it’s all bad. There’s lots of good everywhere. That doesn’t mean everywhere is an equally good place.
What am I going to find out by going there that I can’t read about? That I’ve been lied to? That the CCP isn’t blocking information about Tianenmen Square and other govt atrocities? That the mere act of protesting isn’t illegal? That they aren’t murdering dissidents? Privacy in it’s entirety isn’t illegal?
All of them?
Where is the ChatGPT repository?
US oligarchs have serious sway within EU and Germany in particular. They get their way.
We cannot agree, “comrade.”
We? More like we…stern imperialists
Oh no we fucking can’t bucko
chatgpt and gemini gather data for the US govt, which is the one actively fucking europe over at the moment. so clearly, deepseek is what they need to worry about.
AFAIK per EU law the collected data has to stay in data centers in the EU, ChatGPT and Gemini at least pretend to conform while Deepseek explicitly states that the data is stored in Chinese data centers.
Germany’s going hard right again. Severe crackdowns on civil rights are escalating. They’re arresting people for posting criticism of political efforts online, ramping up their military, pushing far-right politicians into office, etc.
Time to eradicate the Nazis again.
Bist du dumm oder sowas?
Cope lol
Naive take on this point tbh... Germany is being forced by its allies to do its share for the alliance. I am sure Germany's nazi nepo baby leadership would rather be buying Russian gas right now to drive its industrial base but geopolitics are a bitch lol
thank you for gracing us with an example of how a thirteen year old understands the world
Cute
I’m from Spain, we also have problems with nazis, but not so as in Germany, but our left gov has a hard time with these hooligans.
This is so pathetic now. US companies does " pretend" to storage data in Europe, then, 4 years later a couple of them are found out they did not (others did too but were not found to doing so) and an investigation and lawsuit is brought up and 6 years later found guilty and penalized a maximum of 10% of profits for that year (so effectively 1% profit/yr cost of business). Profits brought by the breach of European safeguards… tens times more than the potential penalties. Any CEO has to, by law, give the maximum profits to their investors, and they are just doing that.
But of course, the EU just won’t do that litigation dance with the Chinese companies, the EU knows well it is just a scam to pretend doing something to protect europeans… to Chinese companies, because US does not like, the EU just ban them. The EU will never ban a US company, no matter how many violations they do.
There are differences which prove that GDPR is far from perfect, but lightyears better from what the US permits.
Eg. M$ US
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/cf1d95ce-c6c5-4e47-bbe2-0ce6b35a0147.png"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/f1e73a39-2ec4-49cc-a33a-66550e08426a.png">
vs M$ EU (Germany)
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/981cde83-6b02-4625-9cd3-daaded364b71.png"> <img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/605c5afc-4321-42e8-b081-c07eca54cdfb.png">
Oh for sure! No doubt, at least makes people conscious of that. Now, the larger companies don’t have any problem bypassing the EU law and the incentives are mainly untouched for them to change.
The gdpr isn’t exactly something you quite easily bupass…
Exactm every company in the RU is forced by law to fullfit the minimum of the GDPR to be able to sell their product, the fines are high, even for Google, MS and META, Nusk even said taking X out of the EU (I would approve it).
This is not protecting peoples privacy but straight censorship. Just like how US wanted to ban TikTok.
US want to ban TikTok, because it’s a Chinese company, it has nothing to do with privacy, while in the EU a service must fullfit the GDPR to be allowed to offer their service in the EU and DeepSeek, among others, don’t. This has a lot to do with the privacy rights in the EU, those which in the USA don’t exist, not with censorship. Privacy is a basic right in the EU and not even the Police can access sensible personal data or track your activity without an court order, less aprivate company for advertising reasons or for training their AIs. But yes, right wing politicians in Germany want to change this, but this isn’t so easy in a working Democracy where it need to be approved with a majorit in th Bundestag.