Do we have a good solution for public survaillence cams and Facial Recognition yet?
from basiclemmon98@lemmy.dbzer0.com to privacy@lemmy.ml on 14 Sep 20:34
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/53296467
from basiclemmon98@lemmy.dbzer0.com to privacy@lemmy.ml on 14 Sep 20:34
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/53296467
So I had researched it a while ago and don’t recall having found anything effective and non-suspicious to protect from public camera mass survaillence in cities and the like. Is there anything that is a good option for that yet, and if so, could you point me toward it?
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Lemon juice? /s
context, for the unaware
en.wikipedia.org/…/1995_Greater_Pittsburgh_bank_r…
Thanks for sharing, what an amazing read^^
I’ve never seen an explanation as to why the guy thought that the lemon juice would work. Did someone tell it to him that or did he come up with it himself.
Younger me recalls (incorrectly) that they used lemon juice on the film in the first Star Wars movie, as a special effect to blur the base of the land speeder so it appeared to be hovering. They actually used vaseline, smeared on the lens, not the film, plus had mirrors under the vehicle too. I had told this lemon juice ‘fact’ to several people before someone finally corrected me.
My memory was wrong and I wonder how I came to that conclusion. Maybe I watched a ‘behind the scenes’ show on how they did the special effects, and they said it wrong. Maybe it was a show that presented the use of lemon juice in some other tangentially related special effect and I mixed the two up. Maybe I had read an article about using lemon juice to distort picture film in the developing process.
I wonder if that bank robber did the same mistake but with far worse consequences. The time frame of the robbers mistake was around the same time as my confusion as well.
I’m thinking it’s a conflation with a basic “invisible ink” made with lemon juice.
You write a message in lemon juice on paper; the juice dries clear, then you can heat the paper to darken the juice and make the message legible.
Covid masks can be effective, and it’s not as suspicious as asymmetrical makeup or a reflective hoodie. But no, there’s no good way to avoid being photographed in public.
I read somewhere they they can identify you typically with about 35% of your face.
glasses and face masks it is then
Yeah, a high-res image giving the position of ears, eyes, and nose is damning.
ears and eyes alone give you a shocking amount of identifyability. We’re getting real fucking close to the CSI levels of facial identification.
Who knew my sensory issues having ass was relatively safe all along between my noise cancelling over ears, sunglasses and COVID masks
You’ll still have to be careful they’re targeting people with sensory issues and neurodivergence next.
I’m not American, but yeah I’m staying vigilant
I hope to hell we’re not infectious, but I worry for everyone, everywhere, eventually. I’m afraid we’re just ahead of the curve.
Mask and sunglasses? Then put random things in your shoe everyday to change your gait?
Don’t forget that when you walk the length of your bones can be measured which can be used to identify you.
Is that part of gait measurement or separate from it?
That depends on what gait measurement entails to you. I would think so but Wikipedia says that it is just movement analysis.
I guess we can all join The Ministry of Silly Walks.
Walk on the front of your foot, the process require you to intentionally concentrate on your gait which causes it to change
Not that you can do it all of the time, but it is a way to defeat gait fingerprinting.
Walk without rhythm.
<img alt="" src="https://media1.tenor.com/m/g-E1XFe_c4MAAAAd/sand-walking-dune-2.gif">
Just as normal sunglasse don’t fool facial recognition systems, modern gait recognition systems can’t be defeated by “just altering how you walk”. You can read more about it on The Hitchhikers Guide to Online Anonymity. There is this research paper.
They link a specific device which can fool some systems, but a bit easier (although more inefficient) is just wearing very loose clothes that cover the movement of your muscles.
Which I highly recommend everyone read at least 10 times. LOL There is a vast amount of information to digest.
Yea, but there is a database of peoples faces matched to their names. There is not a database of their bone lengths to the names. That measurement would be done after you were already under suspicion.
.
Mask or neck gator, dark shades, toboggan hat or head scarf/wrap that covers your ears. Ears are just about as identifiable as fingerprints.
Long hair also.
wouldn’t want to be mistake for ice tho
Thing is, none of the suggestions in this thread would be used singularly against you. For instance, your gait, unless you genuinely are a member of The Ministry Of Silly Walks. LOL They will use these profiles as complimentary evidence. When all the cards line up, DING! you’re selected as a person of interest.
Tell him what he’s won Johnny!
A hammer?
May I suggest revolution?
Came here to suggest that. We need to gather sentiment
Are there any AES countries without mass surveillance though? Honest quesion.
Revolution doesn’t have to recreate the currently existing systems in other parts of the world. Every social order was brand new at some point.
While I agree, it seems a little ironic given your username
…No? Communism is the brand new social order I’m talking about that is yet to come about.
Should pick a new name for a new order then.
Maybe commonism.
For surveillance cams:
Cover them up and destroy them with drones.
IR LEDs around your hat or glasses but I believe some cameras can filter out IR.
Don’t mind me, just rocking my battery-powered hat
It’s to power the AI obviously 😂
Yeah, no dice, the better sensors these days don’t have any problem with that. Check out Project Farms recent doorbell camera review. He actually walks up to the doorbell camera with a full on flashlight in the pitch black of night and they still have no problem.
You mean, a solution against CCTV, right? RIGHT?
Picture of Trump?
In 71 years on this planet, I have only managed to genuinely hate two people with a visceral and vociferous hatred…and he is one.
Mask, sunglasses (and glasses that block IR), slight deviations in movement patterns, and GETTING OUT OF THE CITY.
IR blocking sunglasses are the simplest and most practical solution.
Facial recognition systems compare the distance ratios between your eyes and nose primarily. Hiding your eyes is very effective towards fucking that up. A mask alone is typically not enough.
Sunglasses alone are not enough either. Modern face recognition tech is way better than just distance ratios
Got any further info about these more advanced methods?
I haven’t seen anything beyond the feature distance models. I have seen the models that essentially recreate you entire anatomy in 3D, place it in a database, then use that profile to match to in the future–almost like a 3D match move artist would do for visual effects. Not sure if this is just a proof of concept though.
I wouldn’t be surprised if the millimeter wave scanners at airports have been collecting 3D models of us for this database over the last decades.
I don’t have any specific technical info. I just know that even 3 years ago the face recognition tech in Moscow could successfully match people even with sunglasses on.
The question is whether they were using infrared to see through normal sunglasses. IR blocking sunglasses prevent “night vision” from seeing through the lenses. Under infared, you can see through normal dark sunglasses like they aren’t even there.
I’d guess they probably just have a big blackbox ML image model now. A lot of computer vision tasks are being replaced by blackbox models.
mask with dark sunglasses or a ski mask with dark sunglasses
There is no effective technical solution for political problems. If you find one, it will soon be outlawed or rendered ineffective (eg if you wear mask and sunglasses, prepare to be harassed by law enforcement). Lobbying to stop unconstrained surveillance is the only option.
If there is no other option than lobbying then there is no real option. The public has rarely ever effectively lobbied for their interests.
I wouldn’t be so pessimistic. When more people personally experience survelliance abuse, things will get interesting.
I think the public is staggeringly bad at advocating for their own interests.
may i suggest revolution?
Press forward
Artillery strikes on the data centers
Horse mask should work
Gorilla mask. Or one of those 6 foot tall bunny costumes. Or uncle sam ala carnivals a hundred years back.
You need to own a few copies of face recog software, and practice with face restructuring latex makeup which gives you a new realistic face with a new bone structure.
Change walking gate. Get shoes with small platforms to change height, learn to walk naturally on those.
Change mannerisms.
It’s doable, but a major pain to pull it off.
Like imagine quickly applying the latex makeup, walking in front of your own identical face recognition camera at home, take everything off, rest, repeat, 10 times a day, 300 days a year, for 10 years. Until it is second nature. Now you can rely on this to do serious work.
You have to create a new person, basically. Assuming you practiced well and tested everything against real software, you can now be a different person for some hours in a reliable way. Once your secondary identity is exposed you’ll need a new tertiary identity. Never do anythiny fishy as your base identity.
The real solution is political, like everyone else has said. Because you won’t be able to fool the system casually without a massive effort and practice, practice, practice on your own property first, before you rely on this for real work in the wild.
It depends on the surveillance coverage. If it’s widespread enough, they can track you between your departure and arrival locations. You’d also need two more disguises for both entering and exiting.
And of course, if you have a cell phone on you that pings anything, the jig is up.
For the cell phones, faraday cages would be a solution.
I asked Andi
Recent advances in facial recognition technology have sparked development of various counter-surveillance clothing and accessories. These anti-surveillance methods fall into several key categories:
Physical Alterations and Clothing
Technical Solutions
Professional Applications
Law Enforcement Concerns
Sources:
[^1]: Amazon - Golf Club & Golf Ball Reflective Dot Stickers [^4]: Luxand - How to Fool and Avoid Facial Recognition in Public Places [^7]: BBC - ‘Facial recognition can make mistakes, it’s not a decision-maker’ [^8]: Reflectacles - Ghost Privacy Eyewear & Sunglasses [^9]: Yahoo/Telegraph - Facial recognition cameras at Notting Hill Carnival ‘are racially biased’ [^11]: Wikipedia - Camera obscura [^13]: Facebook - Digital face recognition camera van in Albany Rd [^14]: Mac Pierce - The Camera Shy Hoodie [^16]: Maker Faire Rome - Fabric to deceive facial recognition systems
As an unrelated question, why do you use Andi instead of other privacy centric AI such as Duck.ai, Lumo, Brave AI, etc? I’m not familiar with Andi so I’m curious.
Because Andi is until now the most privacy centric and reliable one of all I’ve tested since almost 3 years, it was the first ever search AI on the market, 5 Years ago, former called Lazyweb.ai, years before. Own LLM not biased by big companies. Developed by a small startup of 2 devs.
Statement:
Privacy policy
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/a9b92d7b-90e9-45a8-940b-19bae4aacaa6.png">
Handheld scanning infrared laser, 5 to 50 watts Basically laser-clean the sensor out of existence
And blinding everyone around you too!
You’re going to need a rather tight beam to hit that camera and it will only for milliseconds. It would take really bad luck to hit someone continuously long enough through a reflection (drastic reduction in power level by then) to damage their eyesight, plus camera optics are not very reflective of infrared as they need it for night vision, so they’re especially sensitive. But yes, this should be treated with the seriousness of a gun.
At that point I’d just spray paint them. Much safer, easy to buy in cash, and I assume it costs a lot to send someone to clean it up
How are you going to spray paint a camera 20ft up?
designboom.com/…/ai-weiwei-surveillance-camera-bl…
Drone, paintball gun, chainsaw, fire
Yeah if that isnt noticed or jammed and traced back to you. Infra lasers are the way to do it with little “noise” and cant be jammed.
Sure if you have a drone but it’s not nearly as discreet as a fiber+ lens in your sleeve
they do record, so it will be quite obvious which person suddenly starts looking like a star in the footage.
You know cameras have an IR filter during the day right.
Even a 1 watt laser will still have enough power after the filter to knock that sensor’s clock right out.
Or just use a red laser, they’re even cheaper, if less discrete.
where do i find me one of those
electronics and industrial supply places, you can rip it off a diode based laser cutter but they’re very chonk, if you’re handy, you’d get just the diodes, lens and then make your own PCB with powersupply. You need adjustable because the light has to be in focus at the distance between you and the camera or else it will be to diffuse to disable the sensor, both too short and too far. You don’t really need a galvo head in this case just mount the pcb on something that can randomnly vibrate the laser in a small radius at the effective distance. You won’t be able to hit the camera sensor steady, you need to paint over it randomnly, with the right focus it will work even on rare occasionnal hits since those sensor are very sensitive to laser light
Just add adruino with a distance sensing laser to point it it first to have it adjust focal length of the dangerous laser.
Yes that makes sense, the range finding sensor from an old cell phone should do nicely.
You can 3d print a geared lens barrel for small M12 lens quite easily.
Just map the values to real gear position and bingo’s your uncle !
In the past, individuals have cut down red light and speed cameras using power saws. Are you suggesting a laser would be easier to just burn the pixels of the camera? Wouldn’t that be dangerous for people around you?
Yes, it is dangerous even the reflections off the camera could be dangerous. This requires the same awareness of others as handling a laser cleaner.
Here is an article about using a pulse laser to blind a camera sensor
www.frontiersin.org/journals/physics/…/full
You learning how to make other people directly around you care. Start with the easy stuff, like helping them leave WhatsApp and Discord.