Tarogar@feddit.de
on 23 May 2024 12:12
nextcollapse
There is no consent in “you have to agree”
MentalEdge@sopuli.xyz
on 23 May 2024 13:18
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Nevermind that even if not consenting was an option, this law would still enforce the compromising of all secure communication.
winterayars@sh.itjust.works
on 25 May 2024 17:02
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Yeah, even if zero people ever consented the ability to defeat end to end exception would still be required in the software just in case someone ever did consent. That’s all governments need to bring their other powers down on companies. They can spy on whoever they like with this.
Blizzard@lemmy.zip
on 23 May 2024 12:21
nextcollapse
Thie is a ‘must read’ article and should be trending to reach as many people as possible.
Beryl@lemmy.world
on 23 May 2024 12:34
nextcollapse
This proposal is bonkers. Imagine aaaall the nudes that will have to be manually assessed by police (until they outsource it because it’s cheaper), and then you have to believe they won’t keep anything and that there are zero bad apples.
Besides, if the tools are already in place in the apps, it’s only a question of time before the detection system is repurposed for censorship of anything a totalitarian leaning government doesn’t like. Memes about our dear leader? I’m afraid we can’t allow that !
You can’t have a backdoor that works for the good guys only.
SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world
on 23 May 2024 13:45
collapse
repurposed for censorship of anything a totalitarian leaning government doesn’t like
It’s basically guaranteed they use it against critical journalists, political opponents and activists right out of the gate. It’s what always happens when they get the ability to spy on citizens. And the real criminals move to unofficial encrypted platforms mostly out of reach of law enforcement.
MonkderDritte@feddit.de
on 23 May 2024 13:34
nextcollapse
Ah, now they try a GDPR compliant way of compromising the integrity of communication.
It took me a minute to figure out what is supposed to be "new" about it. Apparently they still want a back door to all your encrypted messaging, but they promise not to use it to look at text, only images, unless you "accept" the terms of service as everyone obviously will need to. I guess the idea is that people are becoming aware that the current "AI" systems are not really capable of understanding language well enough to do what is wanted here, but many haven't yet caught on to the fact that they're also sufficiently bad at discerning the meaning of images.
I wonder how much worse things would be if AI actually could do these things.
crispy_kilt@feddit.de
on 23 May 2024 14:14
nextcollapse
Could they please, just, fuck off?
lemmyreader@lemmy.ml
on 23 May 2024 15:22
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If you’re in the EU you can vote and help to make some of them go away with the coming elections which are pretty soon.
crispy_kilt@feddit.de
on 23 May 2024 18:17
nextcollapse
Good idea. Unfortunately I’m not in the EU (Switzerland)
polskilumalo@lemmygrad.ml
on 23 May 2024 20:19
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HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
good one
JustJack23@slrpnk.net
on 23 May 2024 14:24
nextcollapse
themurphy@lemmy.ml
on 23 May 2024 15:26
nextcollapse
This is a proposal right? Not something that’s actually in place.
This happens every few years, and they also happen close to elections.
I’m not saying that this isn’t dangerous, but these people send these proposals because they use it for their election campaign. They look like they want change, and they then blame too many votes on “not themselves” that it didn’t pass.
Hummm, does TTIP and CETA rings a bell? If not, let’s just say that during the covid pendamic the EU parliments signed CETA behind ours backs allowing transporting good between canada and EU. Sure TTIP itself was not signed (yeahhhi thats a win… Or not?)
But that doesn’t matter because the only thing they wanted was a trade deal with the American continent It’s TTIP with extra steps…
So right now we will propably have meat and vegetables full of GMO’s, pesticides, and meat fully loaded with antibiotics, vaccines…
So If I where you I wouldn’t count to much on
“They look like they want change, and they then blame too many votes on “not themselves” that it didn’t pass.”
They wan’t changes when it benefits them and their agenda ^^.
I see your point in everything you say, but GMOs are not dangerous at all and makes crops use less water, makes them more nutritious, more resistant to pests (which means you don’t need pesticides as much) and can even be used to let rice be richer in vitamin D, which is essential for some places in Asia.
Go after all the other things, no problem. But stop eating the GMO propaganda. Eat the GMO products instead.
That’s not the point, eat what ever you think is good for you. We are not going into arguments that’s out of context. That was just an example out of my memory on how they pass things without our consent or when they see any benefit for their own agenda not for the common good. (Still personal opinion, think whatever you want)
I know it’s not the point, and I don’t really disagree to it either. You’re right that they do have malicious intentions. I just swept it away, because they will be outnumbered. But it’s still concerning and you are right to point it out.
So right now we will propably have meat and vegetables full of GMO’s, pesticides, and meat fully loaded with antibiotics, vaccines…
That’s was maybe a too personal opinion were the conversation can easily get heated quickly (where ever your stand is on that subject) and is out of the scope of the actual post !
So sorry about that :/.
cyberwolfie@lemmy.ml
on 23 May 2024 15:31
nextcollapse
If this passes, could you not self-host an older version of an open source service that does not contain the backdoor (e.g. Matrix) for your closests contacts to circumvent this? Not saying that would be very practical for all communications, but at least for exchanging nudes with your partner? If so, at least there’s that, but it would show how useless it is likely to be as anyone actually in the stated target audience could do the same.
Or is there something I’m missing that would prevent it?
EngineerGaming@feddit.nl
on 23 May 2024 16:31
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Why necessarily an older version? Do you think a XZ-like well-hidden backdoor in some update is likely?
cyberwolfie@lemmy.ml
on 23 May 2024 17:40
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It is assuming this is implemented in a way that forces all existing messaging services to implement this or shut down. In that case, you would want to build it from source from a point in time before it was implemented (or shut down). If that is not the case, then this wouldn’t be much of a problem to begin with, right?
EngineerGaming@feddit.nl
on 23 May 2024 19:31
nextcollapse
I mean, running outdated software is bad practice. Do you think backdoors would have to be cleverly hidden every time, like what we almost got with XZ? If it is in plain sight, I highly doubt a person outside of the oppressed jurisdictions (or just someone anonymous) wouldn’t make a malware-removing fork.
lltnskyc@monero.town
on 23 May 2024 19:39
collapse
this is implemented in a way that forces all existing messaging services to implement this or shut down
This is not possible. Anybody can host a messaging service as a tor onion, and there is nothing they can do about it :)
The only way they can make it work is to basically only allow connections to whitelisted services (not even GFW does that).
RuikkaaPrus@lemmy.ml
on 23 May 2024 15:38
nextcollapse
This proposal is meaningless bullshit. I can’t believe we are one of the the oldest species on earth and they keep coming up with such ridiculous ideas.
This is a NO from me for this ridiculous proposal.
Asudox@lemmy.world
on 23 May 2024 15:42
nextcollapse
The funny thing is that most of those pedophiles who share CP or any of that child sexual shit on the internet don’t use your casual normie’s go-to messaging apps like WhatsApp or Telegram. If they find out that the EU can now request decryption keys to decrypt their stuff, then they’ll switch to something which can’t be circumvented by law and probably start encrypting the messages manually instead. The smarter ones probably already started out like that without trusting any provider in the first place.
The only ones that’ll get caught in this chat control bullshit are the retarded ones.
Didn’t think a region that was all pro-privacy with their GDPR and their DMA and stuff would actually agree to this.
qwerty@discuss.tchncs.de
on 23 May 2024 20:05
nextcollapse
Pedos are just an excuse, it’s about everyone else.
Reawake9179@lemmy.kde.social
on 23 May 2024 22:07
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*always
Fungah@lemmy.world
on 23 May 2024 22:53
nextcollapse
There’s thee things wrong with "please think of the children: 1. They’re not really asking 2. They don’t want you to think 3. It has nothing to do with the children.
szczuroarturo@programming.dev
on 24 May 2024 10:17
nextcollapse
I think pepole on lemmy vastly overestimate how incredibly non technical the vast majority of population is. Including potential criminals.
Still a stupid law tho.
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip
on 24 May 2024 19:29
collapse
The contradictory goals for privacy displayed here are caused by corporations and intelligence agencies lobbying behind closed doors to get that data. And with the think of the children / anti pedophilia rhetoric people blindly agree. Because who wants to be against something that helps to protect kids right?
Scolding0513@sh.itjust.works
on 23 May 2024 20:11
nextcollapse
lol i thought you EU boys’ government was so amazing and cared so much about privacy! lol!
lemmyreader@lemmy.ml
on 23 May 2024 20:34
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lol i thought you EU boys’ government was so amazing and cared so much about privacy! lol!
You will not hear me bragging or applauding about EU except that the GDPR did bring about some positive changes. And if you ask me I wonder what is happening with all the millions of money from the fines that EU gave to Big Tech companies. EU basically claims that they have no money to keep a Fediverse server running. Puzzling.
Scolding0513@sh.itjust.works
on 23 May 2024 22:02
collapse
Peertube
this is a project that killed itself. I laugh at them. they had so many fucking instances and NONE of them allowed registration when i tried to get into it. fuck peertube.
TheAnonymouseJoker@lemmy.ml
on 23 May 2024 21:47
nextcollapse
Was this the meaning of SaveEurope trend? I did not know Europe was not the saviour of the world, as some brainwashed libs tend to believe. Europe is just like USA or Australia as far as privacy goes.
chicken91@lemmy.nz
on 23 May 2024 21:54
nextcollapse
random link kinda relating to mental outlaw: bit.ly/3VfohoN
kylian0087@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 24 May 2024 10:11
nextcollapse
Anyone has recommendations on where to find information on who to vote for for the European parliament elections?
GregorGizeh@lemmy.zip
on 24 May 2024 10:28
nextcollapse
In Germany we have the wahl-o-mat, translates roughly into elect-o-mat.
This is a website loaded with all available parties and their political demands. You then answer a few dozen questions to identify your own opinions on the different subjects and then runs a comparison. You then end up with a tiered list of political parties you align with the most.
Perhaps a similar tool exists for other languages and countries as well
Basically all service providers in the EU will be forced to change their terms of service that all users will have to agree to in order to continue using the service. You will simply get an “updated terms service” notification with a link and one big “OK” button and nothing else. If you follow the link to the terms of service, somewhere deep down (like page 276 of 389) it will says “I agree to be monitored”. You now have the choice to uninstall the app or to click “OK”. It’s basically everything. Obviously Google, Outlook, Yahoo etc and all the Chat apps (Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp) etc. So “Consent” is not really optional if you want to use any internet service, they can just pretend that it is so that can go on an uncontrolled unwarranted spying rampage against everyone and of course for everything.
threaded - newest
There is no consent in “you have to agree”
Nevermind that even if not consenting was an option, this law would still enforce the compromising of all secure communication.
Yeah, even if zero people ever consented the ability to defeat end to end exception would still be required in the software just in case someone ever did consent. That’s all governments need to bring their other powers down on companies. They can spy on whoever they like with this.
Thie is a ‘must read’ article and should be trending to reach as many people as possible.
This proposal is bonkers. Imagine aaaall the nudes that will have to be manually assessed by police (until they outsource it because it’s cheaper), and then you have to believe they won’t keep anything and that there are zero bad apples.
Besides, if the tools are already in place in the apps, it’s only a question of time before the detection system is repurposed for censorship of anything a totalitarian leaning government doesn’t like. Memes about our dear leader? I’m afraid we can’t allow that !
You can’t have a backdoor that works for the good guys only.
It’s basically guaranteed they use it against critical journalists, political opponents and activists right out of the gate. It’s what always happens when they get the ability to spy on citizens. And the real criminals move to unofficial encrypted platforms mostly out of reach of law enforcement.
Ah, now they try a GDPR compliant way of compromising the integrity of communication.
It took me a minute to figure out what is supposed to be "new" about it. Apparently they still want a back door to all your encrypted messaging, but they promise not to use it to look at text, only images, unless you "accept" the terms of service as everyone obviously will need to. I guess the idea is that people are becoming aware that the current "AI" systems are not really capable of understanding language well enough to do what is wanted here, but many haven't yet caught on to the fact that they're also sufficiently bad at discerning the meaning of images.
I wonder how much worse things would be if AI actually could do these things.
Could they please, just, fuck off?
If you’re in the EU you can vote and help to make some of them go away with the coming elections which are pretty soon.
Good idea. Unfortunately I’m not in the EU (Switzerland)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
good one
Have those people ever heard of a link?
Or compressed file archives.
This is a proposal right? Not something that’s actually in place.
This happens every few years, and they also happen close to elections.
I’m not saying that this isn’t dangerous, but these people send these proposals because they use it for their election campaign. They look like they want change, and they then blame too many votes on “not themselves” that it didn’t pass.
I’m no so scared that this goes through, anyway.
Hummm, does TTIP and CETA rings a bell? If not, let’s just say that during the covid pendamic the EU parliments signed CETA behind ours backs allowing transporting good between canada and EU. Sure TTIP itself was not signed (yeahhhi thats a win… Or not?)
But that doesn’t matter because the only thing they wanted was a trade deal with the American continent It’s TTIP with extra steps…
So right now we will propably have meat and vegetables full of GMO’s, pesticides, and meat fully loaded with antibiotics, vaccines…
So If I where you I wouldn’t count to much on
They wan’t changes when it benefits them and their agenda ^^.
I see your point in everything you say, but GMOs are not dangerous at all and makes crops use less water, makes them more nutritious, more resistant to pests (which means you don’t need pesticides as much) and can even be used to let rice be richer in vitamin D, which is essential for some places in Asia.
Go after all the other things, no problem. But stop eating the GMO propaganda. Eat the GMO products instead.
That’s not the point, eat what ever you think is good for you. We are not going into arguments that’s out of context. That was just an example out of my memory on how they pass things without our consent or when they see any benefit for their own agenda not for the common good. (Still personal opinion, think whatever you want)
But whatever… I’m just a random on the net 🤷
I know it’s not the point, and I don’t really disagree to it either. You’re right that they do have malicious intentions. I just swept it away, because they will be outnumbered. But it’s still concerning and you are right to point it out.
👍✌️
Edit:
I shoud have left that part out:
That’s was maybe a too personal opinion were the conversation can easily get heated quickly (where ever your stand is on that subject) and is out of the scope of the actual post !
So sorry about that :/.
If this passes, could you not self-host an older version of an open source service that does not contain the backdoor (e.g. Matrix) for your closests contacts to circumvent this? Not saying that would be very practical for all communications, but at least for exchanging nudes with your partner? If so, at least there’s that, but it would show how useless it is likely to be as anyone actually in the stated target audience could do the same.
Or is there something I’m missing that would prevent it?
Why necessarily an older version? Do you think a XZ-like well-hidden backdoor in some update is likely?
It is assuming this is implemented in a way that forces all existing messaging services to implement this or shut down. In that case, you would want to build it from source from a point in time before it was implemented (or shut down). If that is not the case, then this wouldn’t be much of a problem to begin with, right?
I mean, running outdated software is bad practice. Do you think backdoors would have to be cleverly hidden every time, like what we almost got with XZ? If it is in plain sight, I highly doubt a person outside of the oppressed jurisdictions (or just someone anonymous) wouldn’t make a malware-removing fork.
This is not possible. Anybody can host a messaging service as a tor onion, and there is nothing they can do about it :)
The only way they can make it work is to basically only allow connections to whitelisted services (not even GFW does that).
This proposal is meaningless bullshit. I can’t believe we are one of the the oldest species on earth and they keep coming up with such ridiculous ideas. This is a NO from me for this ridiculous proposal.
Oldest species on earth? Lol what are you talking about?
We’re not even remotely close to one of the oldest, lmao. Take crocs, coelacanths, horseshoe crabs, etc
I think your mom is up there too
Nice one
The funny thing is that most of those pedophiles who share CP or any of that child sexual shit on the internet don’t use your casual normie’s go-to messaging apps like WhatsApp or Telegram. If they find out that the EU can now request decryption keys to decrypt their stuff, then they’ll switch to something which can’t be circumvented by law and probably start encrypting the messages manually instead. The smarter ones probably already started out like that without trusting any provider in the first place. The only ones that’ll get caught in this chat control bullshit are the retarded ones. Didn’t think a region that was all pro-privacy with their GDPR and their DMA and stuff would actually agree to this.
Pedos are just an excuse, it’s about everyone else.
so are terrorists (mostly)
*always
There’s thee things wrong with "please think of the children: 1. They’re not really asking 2. They don’t want you to think 3. It has nothing to do with the children.
I think pepole on lemmy vastly overestimate how incredibly non technical the vast majority of population is. Including potential criminals. Still a stupid law tho.
The contradictory goals for privacy displayed here are caused by corporations and intelligence agencies lobbying behind closed doors to get that data. And with the think of the children / anti pedophilia rhetoric people blindly agree. Because who wants to be against something that helps to protect kids right?
lol i thought you EU boys’ government was so amazing and cared so much about privacy! lol!
You will not hear me bragging or applauding about EU except that the GDPR did bring about some positive changes. And if you ask me I wonder what is happening with all the millions of money from the fines that EU gave to Big Tech companies. EU basically claims that they have no money to keep a Fediverse server running. Puzzling.
Was this the meaning of SaveEurope trend? I did not know Europe was not the saviour of the world, as some brainwashed libs tend to believe. Europe is just like USA or Australia as far as privacy goes.
random link kinda relating to mental outlaw: bit.ly/3VfohoN
That’s so gross!
Anyone has recommendations on where to find information on who to vote for for the European parliament elections?
In Germany we have the wahl-o-mat, translates roughly into elect-o-mat.
This is a website loaded with all available parties and their political demands. You then answer a few dozen questions to identify your own opinions on the different subjects and then runs a comparison. You then end up with a tiered list of political parties you align with the most.
Perhaps a similar tool exists for other languages and countries as well
I guess the pirate party is very privacy focused
Basically all service providers in the EU will be forced to change their terms of service that all users will have to agree to in order to continue using the service. You will simply get an “updated terms service” notification with a link and one big “OK” button and nothing else. If you follow the link to the terms of service, somewhere deep down (like page 276 of 389) it will says “I agree to be monitored”. You now have the choice to uninstall the app or to click “OK”. It’s basically everything. Obviously Google, Outlook, Yahoo etc and all the Chat apps (Signal, Telegram, Whatsapp) etc. So “Consent” is not really optional if you want to use any internet service, they can just pretend that it is so that can go on an uncontrolled unwarranted spying rampage against everyone and of course for everything.