Alternatives to GrapheneOS
from impudentmortal@lemmy.world to privacy@lemmy.ml on 03 Sep 23:27
https://lemmy.world/post/35406937
from impudentmortal@lemmy.world to privacy@lemmy.ml on 03 Sep 23:27
https://lemmy.world/post/35406937
Wanted to get a new phone since my S20 is starting to show its age. And with all the enshitification of Android lately I thought it’d be good to try a different phone OS.
However, I don’t really want to buy a Google Pixel so GrapheneOS is a no go. I was really interested in the Fold 7 but it seems that will not be possible to get without Android. Thought DivestOS was good but it looks like support ended in 2024.
What other phone OS are people using?
threaded - newest
Sad that there are no Linux phone versions for the Xiaomi brands, they’re good, resilient and powerful for their price IMO.
The Community section of PostMarketOS says otherwise.
Yeeeah but what if I want to use my Xiaomi that’s only like 10 years old?
The Furi phone runs a version of Linux and has decent specs
/e/OS has similar goals as Graphene (not exactly), but it supports many more models than Pixels. Check their list and see if it fits your needs.
This
Isn’t it partially closed source though?
No idea, honestly. I’ve never had a device that was supported, so my knowledge of it is limited.
If something is missing from gitlab.e.foundation/e/os/ open an issue. It is open source.
The goals are completely different, and the actual implementations are miles apart. They aren’t comparable apart from a common AOSP ancestor.
LineageOS and the companion microg for LineageOS is a good alternative. They offer a wide variety of phones (and some tablets) that are supported. Been using microg for LOS for over 5 years now with no major issues.
Good to know, thanks!
CalyxOS , though updates are temporarily paused for unknown period , you can get Fairphone 4 or Fairphone 5 , if privacy is your main concern and you don’t mind downgrading
I just saw that 2024 Moto G models (or at least one of them?) is supported. This makes me happy.
No one else knows about iode os?
iode.tech/iodeos/
Why not inatall LineageOS on your S20?
Thought since my phone couldn’t be rooted I wouldn’t be able to change the OS. It’s the SM-G981U model
I sorely miss DivestOS for this purpose, but I’d consider CalyxOS (development sadly on pause)
and iodeOSas runners-up. /e/OS got caught sending voice-to-text data to OpenAI, so I’d stay away for the time being.edit: sad to see that iode has a freemium model on some of its features. see replies for more nuance on the /e/OS situation.
LineageOS will get the most years of support out of the most devices. While leagues ahead of Android for privacy, bear in mind that it still isn’t airtight with regard to the occasional piece of telemetry data sent back to Google. It’s about the only thing that can keep one of my older Pixels somewhat up-to-date.
LeOS is like LineageOS with all Google telemetry stripped out, but only in GSI form (no builds optimized for specific devices), so YMMV with hardware compatibility. I have this on my Samsung tablet.
I’ve also heard about Volla Phones (with VollaOS) and Brax Phones (with iodeOS or Ubuntu Touch), but haven’t taken a serious look since the screen sizes offered are too big for me.
I might try out a Linux phone next, but the relative lack of battery optimizations and edge-case issues leave me a bit hesitant. Also, check out detailed comparison of the common Android ROMs with regard to privacy and security: eylenburg.github.io/android_comparison.htm
To clarify it’s an optional STT service, not on by default if one is not using Murena services, which before sending data proxy it so it’s not associated with a specific user account, for anonymization. It even says so in the screenshot of the links post, for premium Murena service users. FUD from lemmy.ml/post/35472063?scrollToComments=true seems to already be working out, sadly.
Details doc.e.foundation/murena-voice-to-text including “This feature is exclusively available to Murena Workspace Premium users.”
The developers' response to the threads bringing this up with them were absolutely abysmal. They wouldn't even answer the question "does e send data to third parties when this feature is turned off" directly
I’m not sure I understand the question. Why would it send data to anyone if the feature is not enabled? Are people implying a commercial partnership with a third party rather than using their API?
Anyway the point is still that it’s not OK to spread incorrect information, even if people don’t like /e/OS or Murena.
They didn’t “get caught” when it’s literally written down that they do it and it’s optional, namely nobody does it except by explicitly asking for it. I know I don’t. I don’t even have that option like most people who use /e/OS and are not Premium Murena customers paying specifically for that service.
Do you work for them or something
No, why do you suggest that? If one were to say something incorrect about Google or Meta, even though not only I do not work for them but even spend quite a bit of resource to get away from them, I would still say it aloud.
Here I said, multiple times, that the post that sparked this is not correct… because it simply is not true. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ok but why use it over lineage without installing gapps?
Everybody has different reason but what Murena does is sell phones with /e/OS pre-installed, so if one is specifically looking for a deGoogled phone because they don’t have one that already supports LineageOS and/or do not know how to install LineageOS then it’s very convenient. It’s like going to an Apple store and leaving with a phone, not downloading a ROM then installing it on a device one already has. I’m again not saying one is better or worst than the other, solely that if one is looking for a deGoogled device and they don’t have one already, it’s an easier path.
PS: note also that I didn’t compare /e/OS itself to LineageOS, I’m highlighting precisely how there is some value for some people.
Looks like they’re hosting nextcloud as ‘ecloud’ which is just nextcloud and office add-ons hosted by the e/os people. So instead of letting google host your data, you’re trusting it to this murena company who probably has much less security. they are exposing nextcloud to the net which is a terrible idea as there are many many CVEs feedly.com/cve/vendors/nextcloud I like nextcloud and it is good but I would never expose it to the internet like this.
I’d rather google have my info than some random skiddie that compromises murenas services.
There’s just so many reasons not to use this android. Just ‘degoogling’ without any more thought behind it is one of the saddest things in the ‘privacy’ community. Yes, google is bad. But they’re probably not going to be compromised by some low effort skid.
Feel like I keep on repeating myself here but… here is no “they” or “/e/OS people” if you do not explicitly ask for it! Nobody has to use Murena servers for ‘ecloud’ or whatever services, secure or not, they are proposing.
They might use the shittiest backend and it can be absolutely unsecure… but as long as you are not using it, who cares?
There is no point in comparing the services they provide to either Google or self-hosted, just do not use them. It’s really not that hard. It’s in fact literally easier than making an account and use them.
So… yes you can come up with problems and limitations if you want to, but the point is, again :
The whole point is that by using /e/OS one is not using Google and has a functional phone from the start. That’s it.
Did you even read your own link? Four server CVEs this year is close to nothing. Windows and Linux patch like 40 a month. Also none of those vulnerabilities would provide unauthenticated access to any data. Pretty much 99% of all published CVEs only work if you already have some access or privileges on the system.
Thanks for all of the options! May look more into LineageOS
pinephone or a H.A.M radio
Try the newly released Brax 3 with iode is. It can be seen on indie go go. Its privacy by design with no telemetry from big tech.
you have posted only two comments on lemmy so far, and both are telling people to buy this phone. do you have any affiliation with it, and/or are you planning to continue using your lemmy account solely to encourage people to buy it?
also, since you seem to know about this, i am curious if you can enlighten me: are there any benefits of iodéOS compared with LineageOS which it is a derivative of? i didn’t find a comparison between them on the website.
I am curious to why no google Pixel?
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Pixels are very well made though, google is not a hardware company; data and ads is their business. So, buying a pixel and starving them of your data is actually bad business for them
I have a Pixel 7 and my wife has the Pixel 6a, I don’t find them particularly well made. My pixel 7 is already show signs of wear with the power button getting stuck after about 2 years of use, with a case pretty much always on. My former phone, Huawei P20 worked flawlessly and was like new after 5 years of use. In the end I wanted to run GrapheneOS and decided for the Pixel. But at this price, I am quite disappointed with the hardware quality.
To be fair, Huawei hardware (in my experience) lasts way longer than any other, if you take care of the devices.
Buy open box on ebay
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Get your Pixel secondhand. That way you are not contributing to their profit margins and have more flexibility on the Pixel version you want without having to break the bank.
And I also agree with the comment that Pixels are not the most robust phones. They are good, but not the most robust thing you could own. Power but to issue across Pixel devices is a real thing. I had two of the power buttons on separate phones fall out. Good thing is that you can get them online cheaply and manually replace them yourself.
BUT Pixels are gorgeous phones and a real delight to use as well. Lovely screens, decent battery, good camera and is buttery smooth with Graphene.
I am on these Pixels because if Graphene.
The hardware shortcomings I can live with and work around. I mostly have great experiences with Pixels with the occasional hardware issue to slove.
I use the on-screen Accessibility Menu shortcut to adjust audio volume, screen brightness and un/locking the phone.
Are there serious issues like motherboard problems (I know them from my mi 11 lite, which is now completely useless), or some other serious problems, I couldn’t fix without professional tools?
I’ve had about five different Pixels. One of the Pixel 5 just blew a motherboard. I tried replacing it, but It just made more financial sense to buy another one given that the phone came out in 2019(?) and I got it used. The Pixel 5 also stopped receiving security and GOS updates last year so it wasn’t worth saving. Other than this one account, the phones I own have been without serious issue. This is not a direct answer to your question, but I hope you find some meaning to help you decide.
Wow, thanks. Will keep researching, but I hope my Redmi survives until some new info on the GrapheneOS partner brand comes out. Hopefully it’s something that can last ~10 years without problems.
That’s always the hope. I’ve not yet had a phone that has lasted me 10 years yet but hopefully with reparability and designs that favour stability instead of bleeding edge tech, we’ll be able to see a time when that happens. Good luck in your pursuit.
Nothing against the Pixel per se but I wanted to keep my options open. I wanted a big upgrade from my current phone to justify buying a new one and I read a lot of Manga and webtoons. Hence, why I was looking at the Fold 7.
However, I will keep an open mind about phones. The Pixel 9 doesn’t look too bad tbh.
If you want a new phone consider /e/OS as you can directly buy a phone from Murena (who maintains /e/OS) and thus get something working from day 1, no tinkering.
To clarify, because there is constant FUD around /e/OS (I think the deGoogled Android crowd is VERY passionate and invests a lot of effort into picking the “right” ROM for them leading to a kind of “holy war” which tends to lose focus on what actually matters, namely leave Google!) so to clarify
Honestly I recommend this solution if you want a good compromise because IMHO
Feel free to ask questions, happy to clarify.
This is a great explanation thanks
Thanks for the detailed information. The Fairphone 6 is a strong contender to be sure and if I’m able to buy one with the OS installed all the better! Only problem is I’m in the US so I don’t know how much more expensive it will be for me to buy.
And after doing a quick search of /e/OS it looks like an iOS clone, which I am not super fond of. Have you used it before?
Also, it seems my bank isn’t supported. So that’s another bummer
You’re welcome, briefly :
Thanks for clarifying. I guess I’ll look more into /e/OS to see what it’s really like.
My parents are going to France in October so if I decide on the Fairphone I may just ask them to pick it up for me. Not sure how that’d work though so I’ll look more into it.
As for the banking, I use it about once a week or every other week to deposit checks. I will definitely still need that though since it’s hard for me to physically go to the bank due to my limited mobility. Might be best to keep my old phone just for that purpose
If they come to France still check that the US SIM would work there, or that eSIM is supported. Theoretically it’s compatible but US carriers can be … finicky.
For banking if depositing check can be done simply via the Web, then the app is not needed. Might have to ask your bank. Keeping the old phone would work indeed but not the most convenient.
Oh right, sim card compatibility was not something I had considered. Thanks for the tip!
I tried using the browser site for my bank but unfortunately it doesn’t allow depositing checks. Will have to think about that when choosing a phone.
Still, I appreciate all the helpful information you’ve provided. Lots to think about
<img alt="5132" src="https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/pictrs/image/801c94b2-f59c-4dc9-becb-7f874d64642c.webp">
GrapheneOS is the only one cellebrite admits it has trouble with, I can’t recommend another OS, but I can say that being resistant to the government hacking your phone has recently become more important and it might be worth reconsidering.
Would anyone know of a custom ROM for an Oppo Reno 4 Pro? Looked everywhere, can’t find one.
/e/OS fan here, imo it combines a great design and interface with lots of privacy options. Super easy to use. Also the combo with the Murena Cloud is incredibly useful Best deGoogle option imo
/e/ is not private at all
They have a lot of telemetry already installed, their voice to text is sent directly to OpenAI, and their Cloud is not encrypted (and presumably in the US), so anyone can view all your data without a subpoena when (not if) their services get compromised
Check out UBports/Ubuntu Touch, it’s a linux-based OS with a neat desktop mode when docked.
Suggesting a non-Android-derived mobile OS shouldn’t get you downvoted. While I too risking going against the grain, I recommend OpenHarmony. It is available on laptops and should become available on smartphones eventually.
I gave up and went back to a flip phone. XP3plus. More durable, way less of a headache compared to smartphones that are high maintenance. Sure, it runs Android. But they big factor is, it’s a scaled down version of Android; it comes that way out of the box. Just basic apps and no app store. It’s been a breath of fresh air.
Best part? It’s designed to be a utility. Not a human pacifier with social media apps.
More power to you! I enjoy browsing videos and reading webcomics too much to go back to a flip phone though. Don’t go on social media much so if I go deeper down the rabbit hole, a flip phone may bot be out of the question. It would also be a great alternative for a work phone
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If you also do that when going out, It means you are going about going outside the wrong way then. 😁
What’s all this crazy talk about going outside?
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I tried to be nice and deflect your comment with a joke but it seems you just want to be needlessly mean.
I work from home and don’t go out much due to my limited mobility. And I use my phone to watch videos and read when in bed because a laptop would be to cumbersome to use. I do have a tablet as well but even that gets too heavy to hold for long periods of time.
When I do occasionally go out, I only use my phone for directions, to listen to a podcast since the noise of traffic and crowded areas is overstimulating, or you know, as a phone to make calls/texts. So no, I do not use my phone as a pacifier in public, you horse’s ass.
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Based on your responses here, I’m going to assume you don’t get invited out much
I’ve heard good things about Iode OS. Apparently it’s security focused but I honestly haven’t looked in to it at all
Be aware that they use a freemium model. You’ll have to pay for their built-in ad blocker to be useful.
That’s a little stupid. I use vpn with adblocking capabilities, I feel like that will accomplish the same thing
It doesn’t block nothing without payment, but it doesn’t block everything either, which makes it useless IMO.
No, it is not.
They forked LinaegeOS, which is 0 security oriented, stripped it of all its private services (like Seedvault) and now want the user to pay a subscription for their non encrypted backup servers and a shitty DNS blocker
Yeah that’s pretty shitty
You could buy a used Pixel, if you don’t want to support Google.