I didn't realize my LG TV was spying on me until I turned off this setting
(www.pocket-lint.com)
from greenbelt@lemy.lol to privacy@lemmy.ml on 26 Dec 14:37
https://lemy.lol/post/58219324
from greenbelt@lemy.lol to privacy@lemmy.ml on 26 Dec 14:37
https://lemy.lol/post/58219324
Smart TVs with an internet connection: Lets grab screenshots and send them to cooperate analysis advertisement department.
threaded - newest
I’ve decided my next TV will be a Digital Sinage Display.
I’m in the same boat… Somewhere out there, there MUST be a high quality panel with good contrast, viewing angles, and motion, WITHOUT the spyware garbage in it.
I imagine the price of such a TV would be quite high, since the manufacturer would need to make up for the revenue lost from not having spyware.
They do tend to be more expensive. But not extremely so. Maybe 20-40% more than a consumer equivalent.
arstechnica.com/…/the-ars-technica-guide-to-dumb-…
tl;dr- don’t connect the tv to a network, get an apple tv
I’m in a similar boat, our next TV will be a commercial display if I’m not confident that we can successfully air-gap the TV.
Something like this, ideally: www.lg.com/au/business/…/65ep5g-b/
That looks great!
That monitor would be so nice, but why the heck didn’t they include Display Port, when they market it as a work monitor? It’s not even expensive to add!
I swear harfware manufacturers just don’t think much about anything.
The retail industry generally uses NEC/Sharp and similar displays, but they are expensive as they are metal-cased and built to run reliably all day every day.
E.G. sharp.ca/en/product/business-displays-pnm502/
Black levels and viewing angles would be my concern.
Oh those display specs are usually pretty good. What is more of an issue is noise (cooling system) and power consumption. They are usually brighter than home units.
It can’t send screen shots if it doesn’t connect to the internet. I own an LG TV and it’s never been connected to a network.
For those of you who need it:
Press the Settings button on your remote (the gear icon).
When the side menu pops up, select Settings.
Choose the General option.
Scroll down and select System.
5, Select Additional Settings.
This.
Plenty of TVs are capable of radioing your neighbour’s TV and piggybacking off their internet connection, so if it’s not in a Faraday cage, it might be overconfident to say it’s never been connected to a network.
Source on this?
Not OP, but I have heard that some smart TVs do automatically join open networks. Whether it’s true or not, I can’t say.
But if it is true, I would imagine it would vary between manufacturers and even specific device models.
The obvious choice is “don’t buy tvs that might do this” but if you’ve already got one, open up the case, find the wifi antenna, and pull the little connection out.
Im gonna guess most people who buy tvs like this dont have the knowledge to do this.
This is not a reasonable answer lol
That’s fair.
Many times there aren’t reasonable solutions to unreasonable situations. You pick from the options you have.
This sounds just like when my family member tell me that their phones are “listening to what they say” because they talk about something and then see an advertisement for it.
No, you’re seeing the ad because you googled it and forgot that you did. Or someone else on the house did.
Edit: Morons. If your phone listened to you for ads the battery would be dead in hours. More so than they do now.
Automatically joining open networks is a feature built into many devices, this is simply alleging that some TVs come with it enabled by default…
Also, that is a real feature that some advertising company’s offer to their clients:
www.404media.co/heres-the-pitch-deck-for-active-l…
Sounds like you owe some of your family members an apology.
I have never had a device join an open network by itself.
And of the several hundred, or thousands, of smart TV models available, how many have you owned?
Of the tens of thousands of IoT devices available, how many have you owned?
Just trying to figure out the sample size that you based your statement on.
Pitch deck does not mean it’s in active use. Just like filing a patent doesn’t mean the company is going to implement the patented idea.
A pitch deck is a presentation tool used by sales reps when they’re presenting their existing products to perspective clients.
At least, that’s what it is in this context.
…you’re so far behind the times, it’s comical. Yes, there are microphones around you transmitting the shit you say (or at least sentiment markers from it). Absolutely insane that there are people who don’t believe this today.
A couple of years back, my sister and I were talking of buying some seeds for my mom, who’s an avid gardener. Neither of us had looked anything up. Next things we browsed on our phones, unrelated to the subject, we were served a bunch of gardening ads.
Pretty damning evidence, if you ask me.
Your mom had Googled it. You got the ads because you were on her network.
Have no open networks around.
I guess I never considered going door-to-door in the apartment complex and smashing everyone’s Wi-Fi router whose settings displease me.
10/10 suggestion, will attempt.
I don’t know if they use it on their Fire TVs but Amazon Sidewalk, for instance, does exactly what the previous commenter described.
Interesting. But my house basically is a faraday cage. I have no signal outside it from my wifi or any of the others because of the way they were constructed. I have to have wifi repeaters indoors and a mobile repeater setup to get cell coverage inside.
So I guess I’m lucky in that respect.
But all in all this is good information for people to know including me. Thanks for that.
You’re going to need to provide some evidence for such a claim. That doesn’t even sound legal.
Not OP but I think this guy is remembering a scene from silicon valley, not from reality. That said it’s probably not that far off. Amazon smart devices absolutely have this “feature” in production today-- and it’s opt-out, not opt-in.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amazon_Sidewalk
Thanks for that. Just another reason to be glad I’ve banned any Amazon devices in my house. It’s already insane enough to me that people literally have to think before they speak in their own homes to avoid accidentally triggering the always-listening robo-creepy-spy in the next room.
Source? Never heard of that ever.
I also have an LG TV that I do not connect to the internet. How have you solved the problem of it frequently harassing you to recalibrate the screen, and connect to the internet?
I haven’t but that’s probably because I don’t use it to do anything that would require that. Like. Everything (switching inputs, volume etc) is handled by my receiver. The devices that are hooked up to the receiver all have their settings on device.
It may also depend on what firmware your TV came with and what model you have?
Sorry I can’t be more help.
1. Press the Settings button on your remote (the gear icon).
2. When the side menu pops up, select Settings.
3. Chose the General option.
4. Scroll down and select System.
5, Select Additional Settings.
6. Toggle Live Plus off.
And then fingers crossed. Since you don't know if this option is doing something at all. After all their source code is not open source.
Anyhow.. Have fun. Good luck. And it's better to fully disconnect your smart TV from the internet and wifi. And just use your own home theater computer with Linux. And don't use any of their smart features or apps.
What an age we live in!
The problem is “smart TVs with an Internet connection”. You can still buy non-connected TVs, but they’re hard to find.
all the “smart” features are garbage though. it’s not a privacy issue but that shit should just take in a video signal and display an image. anything smarter than closed captions probably makes the device worse.
100% agree. I want a TV that’s just a TV. Getting harder to find those.
It’s going to get to the point where we’ll need 3rd party open source OSes for every device in our homes.
“Your toaster is spying on you, use ToastOS instead.”
Yeah. Looks like RootmyTV is only for older models of LG TVs and that’s kind of sad.
.
I still believe this leaves a good market for a brand to just make privacy focused TVs.
If I’m buying a $1000 TV, I would pay $1100 if it means it’s just a screen and not smart.
The only obstacle is enough people wanting this.
Considers how much the average person cares
Maybe it’s a fantasy.
The problem is you can just buy the $1000 TV you actually want and a $50 Android TV box to get the best of both worlds.
Now if only there was better competition on that Steaming box front.
There is a market, but it’s to small for companies to care about
Agreed. I tried looking for a big monitor instead of a TV last time we were in the market for one and there were shockingly few options.
It is a fantasy because unfortunately it’s not a large enough market for any company to care about.
You can already do that. Just skip the WiFi step in the setup then plug your own box into the HDMI port.
Google TV, WebOS and Tizen models let you do this, only Roku and Fire TV don’t AFAIK.
You’re not too far off: there are water kettles and rice cookers (Xiaomi) and vacuum cleaners with app support (and definitely not collecting telemetry…)
There are also refrigerators, washers, dryers and dishwashers that collect telemetry.
And toilets
💩
Reminds me of the Cory Doctorow story Unauthorized Bread. It’s as depressing as it is relevant even though it tries to shoot for hope.
Was just going to post this as well.
I have faith that soon even ‘dumb’ devices will ship with small multi-year battery powered cell-connected evices that cannot be disabled, and are not part of an OS.
Why are people connecting their tvs to the internet at all vs using a dedicated streaming box? Are tvs now forcing you to do so on initial setup?
I haven’t bought a tv in 10+ years - want to get another but honestly feel sketched out at the prospect of doing so.
I don’t understand why people don’t just buy a monitor or projector if they’re privacy focused. I have never owned a “smart” tv amd never will.
Getting a 4k monitor the size of a large-screen TV (65in+) is hard and expensive. A projector is great only in very ideal conditions (proper white and smooth backdrop, dark room with no light interference). Dumb TVs used in digital signage are usually not on par with regular TVs in terms of display quality, and they are also expensive. The best budget-friendly option is a disconnected 4k TV and a streaming box.
Intended roles and respective optimizations. Couch vs. 1 meter away in dpi and size.
Look for “digital signage”. It’s a screen designed to be used for, like, menus in fast food restaurants. But watch out, though, because the Samsung one I bought recently still had an Internet connection. I’ve simply chosen to not connect it, but it still pesters me about it.
My Epson projector doesn’t have a smart OS. A lot of modern cheap projectors are unfortunately broken that way.
I don’t get why people reflexively suggest streaming boxes. A standalone Roku, Onn or FireTV is gonna spy on you just as much as any of these things. Apple TV is probably the best of a bad bunch (esp. since Nvidia enshittified the Shield TV). There’s options like running the Shield with an alternate launcher or putting a ROM on the Fire stick or running A Linux STB but none of those are particularly accessible to the non-tech set.
Thank you. “I refuse to send my data to my tv company! Here, Apple, you take it instead.”
hypothetically the box doesn’t see everything else you do with the TV, but that’s a minimal reduction in footprint.
The usability of “smart” TVs is garbage. They arne’t very powerful computers so if you are going to sacrifice privacy by using streaming, you should do it with a better streaming device. There is no reason a TV needs to connect to the internet. There is nothing that needs to be updated.
I guess I wasn’t meaning to recommend one over the other, I was curious what the value proposition of connecting your tv to the internet is. (The tv I have is at least ten years old and is incredibly sluggish even changing channels - I can’t imagine using the built in apps is any better. Same with our ancient Blu-ray player, just awful to use.) Or if there is no value prop and you’re forced (or nagged) to do so in order to use your tv.
I assume that any sort of streaming is offering up a surveillance buffet. I just want to limit the data as best I can.
Dude. You bought an LG and gave it access to the Internet. What did you expect?
I got a nice OLED TV as my main monitor. I only connect it to the internet to run updates if I think it is necessary (there is also usually a USB option for updates too), then disconnect once that’s done. Works great for sailing the seas and streaming whatever. It’s unfortunate I paid for stuff that I won’t use in the TV, but that’s often the case with many products these days.
I don’t know if it’s still the case, but smart TVs were a bit cheaper than “dumb” TVs at one point, since the cost of the TV was subsidised by all the streaming platforms that paid to be included on the TV manufacturer’s OS, and have a customized Netflix or Amazon logo button on the remote that opens their app.
I don’t know if this is done anymore since there are hardly any dumb TVs out there being made now.
I get the feeling they have started to double/triple dip at this point, full price + sell your data + advertise.
Luckily TCL and Hisense have made the price of panels so cheap that unless you want some fancy OLED that a 300 dollar TV is more than enough for the vast majority of people.
I basically just assume that anything which is closed-source, networked and has sensors of any kind is a spying device. It’s easier than evaluating each one individually.
Easier from an analysis perspective, but seems a much harder way to live your life overall.
Eh. Its an upfront decision that’s pretty easy to figure out if a TV or something has it. A TV being an extreme case where you know for near certain it has it even. Its about as hard as looking for anything else you care about in a product in most anything else this might be a concern with - I can quickly see if a TV is a smart TV or not.
Disclaimer: I am aware that the TV market specifically is kiiinda weird with their dedicated TV remote button deals that let them sell TV units at a loss (to then be remade by these deals). I still feel this is not much harder a way to live life… I mean, what, I’m gonna spend an extra 20 minutes looking for a TV?
You may have a different tv market but I don’t think it’s even possible to buy a dumb tv from a store anymore. I was able to get one pre-covid, I haven’t been able to find one since then.
You can set up Google TV, WebOS and Tizen TVs without WiFi and just use the HDMI ports.
I assume you meant to send this to the egg guy? Their point was that it’s closed source so you can’t trust it, so why would you trust it?
Speaking only for myself I just put the tv on an old router with my media server. Media server has a second connection to the internet. Tv thinks it’s connected to something but just doesn’t have internet access. That’s good enough for me. If they are jumping through that many hoops to learn I rewatch old tv shows from the 2000s I sure hope they get value from that knowledge.
In what way?
You don’t have to analyze options but you cut yourself off from many options by default. These days it’s hard to find options without “smort” features so there may be a time soon when it’s impossible to get some types of goods. I don’t think we’re there with everything yet, but its the direction society is moving.
I see. I guess I don’t use some of the technology that others do, so I probably don’t have this problem to the same extent others would.
Enough is enough. If I ever buy a TV, I will personally tear out anything even remotely resembling an antenna (including destroying PCB antennas).
I’ve never found a compelling reason to buy a TV. Now if computer monitors ever go “smart” then I’m in trouble.
Unfortunately, many have already gone “smart” in some capacity - which for me means doing anything I have not expressly allowed it to do. A relatively harmless example is my monitor sometimes deciding it needs to do “OLED protect” - and I cannot stop it from doing that sometimes. At least the idea behind that behaviour is legit (preventing burn-ins) - but ignoring the user’s wishes absolutely not. A clanker that is my property will never get to tell me what it wants to do.
I have an LG “Smart” TV, but because I don’t use it much (view the News in the Public TV and little more) I never connected it to the WiFi, so offline this Live Plus is irrelevant for me.
Not necessarily. Manufacturers have been known to use ad-hoc networks to find a path back home.
For example your neighbour gets a smart tv and connects to the internet. Now your smart tv connected to your neighbours and phones home.
Exactly. Desoldering the wifi antennas is about the best you can do.
Any proof of this. First I’ve heard about it.
It’s not this the way Apple tag and findmyphone works?
I thought that was via other iPhone pinging the tag and reporting its last location back. This sounds like the TV using the other TV as a network bridge and then sending data back via it.
Any TV nowadays is a smart TV, dumb TV are not longer exist since several years, but I don’t think that the TV can connect to the Neighbours WiFi (so smart to crack the passcode, normally long as my arm, my router even with an inbuild Firewall, well…), and even if it is the case, they log the activity of the neighbours WiFi, not mine. There isn’t any network activity in my TV, apart watching 99% Public TV which don’t have ads in most EU countries (because of this, movies in EU public TV are country restricted, I can watch these only in the PC, visiting their homepage using an Proxy with an server of the corresponding country).
It’s not connecting to your neighbours wifi. Your neighbours tv can make its own hidden wifi, that your tv can look for. Once your tv connects to the other tv, it could send whatever data it likes through neighbours tv. Since their tv is internet connected it would get back to manufactures servers.
Now, I haven’t researched this, or have any hard proof of manufactures doing this. But the technology itself would be fairly trivial to implement, so I wouldn’t be surprised if it’s already happening.
As others have said, the only sure-fire way to ensure no connection is to remove the wifi chip altogether.
Well, as said before, with the use I give to the TV, it’s anyway irrelevant for me. Logging the news or an ocassional docu in the public TV? Which ads will they show in channels which don`t have?
Rule #1 Do not connect tvs to wifi.
Problems solved.
While this is the correct answer, in my case, with my LG OLED acting as a PC monitor, I have to leave networking on or else I have to manually power it on and off with the remote.
I don’t see how that’s much of a hassle. Also a lot of the time I’ll just open up all lackscreen.com and leave that open if I am walking away only for a bit
What do you do with all that time you save?
This is true, but if you want 120Hz Steam Link on your TV, it’s usually the only way to achieve that.
I would guess theres a way to create a VLAN that blocks internet access but allows local traffic. Though you would need more advanced networking equipment and knowhow to do it.
Or put Moonlight on a Raspberry Pi and hook it up to your TV for 1440p/144hz or 4K/60hz with significantly less latency. Plus you won’t require an app on the TV
What OS and remote are you going to use for that, though?
FWIW, I get like, maybe 14ms latency with Steam Link and that’s just over WiFi, it’s shockingly usable.
There’s something to be said about the convenience that off-the-shelf solutions provide over custom solutions, and that’s coming from someone who typically always opts for custom solutions.
I’ve done this in the past with Raspbian and the official Steam client, and set up Steam to launch in Big Picture mode, and used an X-Box controller to control it. Problem was my PC was old, so games would peg my CPU and give me bad latency due to poor encoding performance on the PC side.
For what we see nowadays in TV, I often thought to substitute it with a Fishtank, smarter content, HD 3D, true color and no spyware
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