iturnedintoanewt@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 06:13
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Interestingly, the same mentioned article from Android Police sells it as a “privacy win”. I’ve tried to read it as a positive spin, and I seriously don’t understand what these guys have been smoking.
ViatorOmnium@piefed.social
on 01 Jul 06:37
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In a glass half full perspective, it won't send all your data to Google's servers. The part they are not saying is that the data even remotely related to your query is going to be sent to Google anyway. They are claiming they will delete the data after 72 hours, which I believe they will for now, but knowing them, there's probably going to be a sneaky policy update in a couple of years.
I completely agree, I guess what they call “privacy win” is that this feature can now work without storing data on Google (highlighted by me):
Based on Google’s email, it seems the company will allow Gemini to access messages, WhatsApp, and control device system settings without requiring that you enable the Gemini Apps Activity setting for your account. This setting saves your Gemini history to your Google account, potentially allowing for better personalization.
Previously, if you had this setting disabled for your Google account, you weren’t able to use the Messages, Phone, Utilities, or WhatsApp extensions in Gemini (via 9to5Google). Once this change rolls out to your account, you will be able to access these features without having to save your Gemini history on Google’s servers.
When they say
potentially allowing for better personalization
they sound like the companies trying to sell you these features without mentioning the privacy implications of said features. :/
irotsoma@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 01 Jul 16:44
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They got that idea “ask for forgiveness not permission” pushed to them by capitalist extremists for too long. I despise that concept in any context, whether justifying rape or violating privacy or anything else. But I even see it in TV shows these days portrayed as normal. Gross 🤮
They know what it is. But they think it’s optional, because us plebs don’t deserve a choice. They think they run our world because we use their platforms.
Blaster_M@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 07:18
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If you don’t want this stuff on your phone, lemme point you to:
GrapheneOS (Pixels only, has Most Security at Tinfoil Hat level while also providing compatibility for Google Play (optional, sandboxed) and SafetyNet)
CalyxOS (Pixels, Some Moto G 5G, Fairphone 5, 4, SHIFTphone 8, less Security than GrapheneOS but has Security)
LineageOS (Many older devices, runs unlocked boot so least Security but still can run sans google)
BingBong@sh.itjust.works
on 01 Jul 07:43
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If we are on an old pixel (eg pixel 4) is it more or less secure to switch to graphene? Neither Google nor graphene are doing updates for that model anymore
I’ve thought of getting an 8 to put graphene on but the recent news from the project about Google making it harder on them has me pausing since I don’t fully understand what is affected.
I don’t want Gemeni anywhere near my messages and phone content.
HumanPerson@sh.itjust.works
on 01 Jul 08:43
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You can put graphene on a 4. It won’t be supported but will be more secure. Still not recommended by me or grapheneos. They say that the reason they support pixels is due to the security, not the aosp support, and that they will continue to develop grapheneos. Android 16 is the first new build with the changes and grapheneos is testing it now iirc. I would personally recommend seeing how 16 goes (possibly post after the update hits stable asking for user feedback) and decide based on that. You should probably get something new as the complete lack of security updates is quite bad but that could help you decide whether to go with graphene. Personally, I am on grapheneos and am not worried about it.
Edit: Nevermind, just checked. I swear this is still a great phone.
oaklandnative@lemmy.world
on 02 Jul 01:19
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I was considering a switch but due to recent policy changes at Google, I’m now concerned about long-term (or even short-term) support for GrapheneOS and other custom ROMs:
I don’t know anything about tech. I don’t want to contribute anything to AI, but I’m afraid I’m going to brick my pixel if I install any of this. Here’s a question. If I let them steal my info, does that hurt other people, or just me?
Depends. Do you want the possibility of an AI model being able to fork over some private details in your convos? The potential for someone that doesn’t like what you believe in to subpoena google for this data?
As for bricking, it won’t, and the whole process is on the website, using a chrome-based browser and usb cable (it detects which pixel you have and does all the hard stuff) but you do have to back up your stuff as it will erase when it gets graphened.
Xttweaponttx@sh.itjust.works
on 04 Jul 15:11
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There’s a lineagoOS fork that comes prepackages with microG as well, helping to keep google services style stuff working (maps links etc) without using any actual google services. It’s my daily driver, would recommend!
YMMV - some stuff still flat out doesn’t work if it’s too reliant on google services. Graphene is definitely better in that regard, if you have a pixel.
blouse5293@mtgzone.com
on 01 Jul 08:47
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That’s why degoogle community have more users recently !
etherphon@midwest.social
on 01 Jul 09:27
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Great, well bye bye Pixel 6a, about time anyways I guess. I knew it was only a matter of time before they did something to make these devices completely unbearable, “AI” bullshit has done it.
Well the chip is still capable of using some “AI cores” and you can install AI app on it but by default it’s gone. I would assume that there is some algorithme in Android that have been setup using Machine Learning and that you could market as AI since everything that is automated or made by computer gets the label AI as it’s the new buzzword of Silicon Valley and technology but I wouldn’t call them AI myself.
etherphon@midwest.social
on 01 Jul 09:54
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I will definitely give it a shot, I’ve loaded an alternate OS on a phone before but it was more about customization then. Hopefully there will continue to be options like this for people who prefer to use their own brain and don’t mind pressing buttons instead of giving voice commands. I don’t want to talk to inanimate objects I talk to myself enough.
Well GrapheneOS is a a robust mobile OS built for security. It brings amazing privacy out-of-the-box and control features. You really own your phone! Not Google, not Big Techs and Government, YOU.
etherphon@midwest.social
on 01 Jul 10:35
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I will definitely give it a whirl, I also need to eventually switch my desktop to Linux as I’m still in W10, I used a lot of audio plugins (VST) that had no Linux versions but now I’m mostly hardware based. I just worry that there comes a time when it’s nigh on impossible to install an alternate OS on a phone but I suppose there will always be people trying to find a way.
Honestly I think that AlternativeOS will always be possible, the main issue is how compatible it will be with everyday apps that people rely on. We’ve started to see some compatibility issue with Play Integrity on GrapheneOS, with Revolut (has been fixed) and Alternate AppStore such as AuroraStore having some apps refusing to launch if not installed from PlayStore itself.
On the Linux side of thing you could see how your plugins performs on a VM and or see how Ardour plays with your hardware.
Yes.
Revolut prevented new users to login in a specific version of their app (the newer). Users that were already logged in could update the app without issue and users could use an older APK of Revolut to sign in. However the PlayIntegrity process that was banning their GrapheneOS users have been resolved and now the harden OS is whitelisted from Revolut.
At least that’s what I have followed/understood from the whole thing but I am not a Revolut user.
There’s more to it. It wasn’t Play Integrity blocking Graphene per se, but the fact that Revolut checked the build ID string, which was uniquely identifiable as Graphene for any build. This was then made more generic, so the block doesn’t work for now, but the workaround could break any moment and be made impossible by Revolut enforcing “strong” level of Play Integrity. Such bullshit.
RE: Audio stuff
I switched to bitwig long before I switched to Linux. Having familiarity with a DAW that ran natively was awesome; I also had a lot of plugins that ran as windows only VSTs. Yabridge + Wine was the answer.
You do have to downgrade wine to an older version (but this also helps you learn some Linux stuff) and works fairly well. I can even run omnisphere through yabridge (I do have a wild desktop tho so maybe not. the best point of comparison).
Mint is the first distro I used and most everything was really easy for getting audio stuff up and running quickly. I’m now using Garuda which I mostly like; there are issues that I’m still trying to work out.
Thanks, interestingly Garuda was at the top of my list but maybe I’ll just stick to Mint and not be fancy. Bitwig always interested me and if I decided to go back to a DAW I’m definitely taking a second look because I have a tracker background from way back and the modularity and easy hardware integration look great. I’m not too concerned about the plugins so much as the hardware now, there is no official support for the Black Lion audio interface I bought but I’m assured it should work fine under ALSA and as I’m currently only needing it to record a stereo pair it should be fine. The plugins I use now are mainly compressors and EQs for some final mixing and “mastering” and there seems to be a decent amount of choices now for native plugins in those areas but I do have some favs I might need to bring over so I will check Yabridge. Look forward to getting my hands dirty again, hacking windows has just becoming getting rid of nuisances instead of customizing my computing experience.
hacking windows has just becoming getting rid of nuisances instead of customizing my computing experience
I can totally relate to this! Perfectly sentenced.
ProdigalFrog@slrpnk.net
on 01 Jul 13:33
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If you’d be interested in a tracker-like DAW, Renoise has a native Linux version.
For more traditional DAWS, Bitwig and Reaper are the two best Linux native options. Reaper is quite cheap, and also offers a trial version that just nags you like winrar.
I mean I like Garuda, but I would say it has taken a bit more to set up. I think if you’re running AMD you’ll be fine, it just depends on how much tinkering you want to do. Honestly the biggest reason I switched was that I had moved to Debian and games were not working too well for me - gaming has been much smoother but my desktop environment is a bit glitchy and buggy (likely due to my nvidia / Intel stuff)
Bitwig has better support on debian-ish distros, which mint kinda is (at least it is able to download and run .deb files).
Bitwig has been my favorite DAW since I began using it more in 2019, and as my only DAW fully but EoY '19; I enjoy all the flexibility I have with modules and the like.
I am unfamiliar with the Black Lion audio interface from what I’m reading it looks like they have class compliant interfaces so it should work with pipewire.
Ubuntu studio with the audio suite may be a good way to go too.
Depends on the total use case tho. I’m a newbie too in Linux but am happy to answer what I can
bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works
on 01 Jul 19:55
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Only non-carrier-locked Google Pixel phones. They have been talking about potential partnership with other OEM but it’s not easy with Google ToS for Android OEM manufacturer to support other OS officially.
Also they have paranoid-level security model and beside a few company like Google, Apple and maybe Samsung few devices would meet their requierments… And you know, Samsung introduced Knox to prevent their users to flash other firmware or mod their hardware and the other one, Apple, is the company that killed the FOSS Cydia Store…
Phone carriers don’t want people “churning” (leaving their network for another) so they enforce the phone’s locking, especially if you buy the phone from the cell carrier, as they often advertise free phone or cheap phone on a payment plan, and use that to enforce people staying on their network.
I’m not a huge phone user to begin with so thats fine as long as I can change some colors here and there, I prefer less fancy tbh for instance I like the i386-dark theme here.
That is a misleading claim right here, don’t blindly trust everything you read online. The core team of the project explained it very well why it’s not as dramatic as people made it seems too. It’s not an ideal position and Google is definitely going in a direction that doesn’t not benefit AOSP but no Android16 is comming to GrapheneOS and future version also should.
FooBarrington@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 10:32
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FooBarrington@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 11:09
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Did they explicitly say anywhere that future versions should be coming as well? I only see them mentioning Android 16, and devices still being “supported”, but that could also mean improvements in Android 16.
GrapheneOS will continue supporting the current devices we support until their end-of-life dates. We’ll also add support for new Pixels as long as they meet our requirements. We’ve tried to make that clear, but recent posts about changes to AOSP have been widely misrepresented.
Prior to Android 16, Pixels had first class support in the Android Open Source Project as the official reference devices. This was never one of our requirements and no other device provides it.
From my understanding yes but maybe not in this thread
FooBarrington@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 11:34
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These projects suffer from the same issues with how Google share new Android versions. This is not a solution. Also if you have a Pixel I would personnaly use a secure locked bootloader OS rather than an unsecure unlocked bootloader. I tend to privilege /e/OS on Fairphone and LineageOS on phone that have already dropped support.
ChocolateFrostedSugarBombs@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 13:21
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I really really want to but I can’t for another year because I’m still paying off my pixel. It’s still carrier locked and I can’t unlock it till it’s paid off.
Yep you can’t flash carrier locked Pixels, I hope you don’t have much longer to wait or that the time will fly fast
ChocolateFrostedSugarBombs@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 15:00
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It’s rough…I still have another 13 months I think. But to the article, I don’t have the options in my phone that they’re talking about. Do you? Or has it just not rolled out to me yet?
I avoid running Google software on my devices so I don’t have the Gemini App
ChocolateFrostedSugarBombs@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 15:35
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Fair. I think I had previously uninstalled Gemini when I first got my phone so maybe that’s why the app isn’t present? But the way that they are talking about it in the article, since Gemini seems to be replacing Assistant, maybe new settings will appear for me to mess around with…
QualifiedKitten@discuss.online
on 03 Jul 03:31
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I could be wrong, but I have a suspicion that you still won’t be able to once it’s paid off. I’ve run into the issue a few times in the past when buying an “unlocked” Pixel from Amazon that was carrier unlocked, but the bootloader was still not unlockable. A “carrier unlocked” phone allows you to use the phone on any carrier, but doesn’t always guarantee an unlockable bootloader.
ChocolateFrostedSugarBombs@lemmy.world
on 04 Jul 02:47
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Any idea how I could check? It doesn’t say anything any that I’m my carrier account…
eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 03 Jul 04:48
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I have a 6a, installed GrapheneOS though the web tool, very happy.
Thanks for the report, I just got basically forced to install the new 16 update after a week of swiping it away so I’ll have to get going on that, I’m so tired of digging through the settings after every update to check every one to turn off all the tracking, suggestions, etc. If those even do anything. Whack a mole.
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone
on 01 Jul 11:20
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I have the Gemini settings but the app does not appear here. Should I consider myself “safe” or is it cause it’s still called Assistant on my phone?
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone
on 01 Jul 13:44
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i believe assistant only became gemini this year (or with the latest android update)
previously you could install and uninstall gemini as you wish.
Whats_your_reasoning@lemmy.world
on 01 Jul 13:08
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We use Chromebooks at my work (along with the whole Google suite), and we are bound by the rules of HIPAA. Without a way to opt out of this AI crap, I increasingly worry about what all of this means for our clients’ privacy. Especially with this administration, with RFK deadset on targeting people with disabilities.
We use Chromebooks at my work (along with the whole Google suite), and we are bound by the rules of HIPAA.
Assuming you mentioning HIPAA and disabilities, you must probably work in the healthcare industry. What kind of backwater hospital/healthcare company uses chromebook?! I know chromebooks are prelevant in the education industry but healthcare.... They are cheap but Google makes up that money through Google Workplace vendor lock in! Man.... I have seen Linux running on hospitals even in 3rd world countries.... If you can, please quit that job! A healthcare workplace using chromebooks will not give a damn to employee's privacy!
faythofdragons@slrpnk.net
on 02 Jul 03:51
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I did care before COVID, and the chromebooks were the safe option. Some sites had desktop computers available, but those had no antivirus and we logged into the admin account with full permissions.
Privacy =/= Security. Windows XP might have good privacy (I would argue Windows 2000 is better for that, as it doesn’t have Product Activation), but security is nonexistant in 2025 in either case. For malware, it’s free real estate.
obsidianfoxxy7870@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 01 Jul 15:43
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This makes me so happy I’m using Graphine OS. Also the entire idea that there “not storing my history” I don’t trust them. They have already been sued multiple times over keeping ingogneto data.
shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip
on 01 Jul 16:20
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No, it’s really not. Primarily, because I’m using LineageOS with absolutely no Google services at all installed.
pound_heap@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 01 Jul 16:22
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I believe most people who care about privacy don’t trust Gemini or Google in general. So it’s not an issue if you already not using Gemini app. It can be uninstalled (at least for now) even without going alternative ROM way
I went outside my comfort zone and installed Lineage on my old Pixel, only to find out I couldn’t get wi-fi calling, so I reverted to my Google OS. Oh no. Any options other than Lineage or a new phone? This 6 year old phone works great except for the lack of updates, and except for the upcoming Gemini updates :( I’m struggling.
Edit: Ubuntu Touch, anybody?
Edit 2: Looks like VoLTE isn’t supported on Ubuntu, either. Any idea why?
I believe I’m too old with my 3a. I’ve been considering getting a used 5, 6, 7, or 8 off ebay but I worry that support will run out. Any idea if that’s true?
That’s what I expected, but had hoped there would be additional legacy support. Google previously only supported Pixels for 3 years, right? They may be more competitive with Apple now, but that’s still only 6-7 years. In that case, if I buy an old Pixel on ebay it’s not likely to have much of a run left.
My issues with Lineage are related, although they obviously try to give legacy support (perhaps without the ability to make full security updates), but we still run into functionality issues like my lack of wi-fi calling. I don’t think that is so much about the age of the phone as it is due to tech/frequency updates that are non-compatible with some older devices, and proprietary opaqueness in the Google code. I wish Lineage would at least list this issue on their wiki, phone by phone, as that would make it easier for me to decide on my next step.
I hear a tiny dev team made some VoLTE progress in the Linux world, but I am way over my head in trying to understand exactly what’s going on. I think they’ve got an Ubuntu Touch device working with VoLTE for the first time? Does it work in the US? Does it have Wi-fi calling? I have many questions but need to keep reading. (I know VoLTE is different from VoWiFi, but I see them used interchangeably at times.)
FrostyPolicy@suppo.fi
on 01 Jul 19:49
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GrapheneOS is the way to go with a Pixel phone. Wifi calling works just fine on my Pixel 8. As does VoLTE.
I don’t believe they support the 3a. I’m really vintage.
Any idea how long support will last for the 8? I feel a little burned by the lack of support for the 3a, though I understand that a) 6 years for a phone is a good run in this wasteful world, and b) wifi calling on the 3a hasn’t been dropped by choice, but is actually a complicated issue that small #s of devs are still working on.
Great link, thank you. I’m so used to desperately trying to make this old 3a work that I didn’t realize they’d listed out support expectations for more recent models.
VoLTE isn’t yet supported in Linux because no one has yet completed writing an open source implementation. Unfortunately, phone manufacturers, chip manufacturers, and cell carriers all hold these cards very close to their chests, so drivers have to be written from scratch by reverse engineering the protocols, which are encrypted on top of being completely nebulous. Support is coming, eventually, but it takes an extraordinary amount of time and effort to do this, which nobody has time to do.
Gemini now has a second set of toggles buried in its settings menu. You can go to Profile → Apps inside the Gemini app and manually disable access to Phone, Messages, WhatsApp, or Utilities. But these are turned on by default, even if you’ve disabled tracking in the past.
So I just went to the app in my neighbor's phone, and it asked me to switch. I said no, and it won't let me do anything else. So will this need to be done next week?
Only for Google Pixel phones. The install process is right there. You just need a chromium-based browser (chrome, edge, vivaldi, opera, brave, etc.), an Unlocked Pixel, and the usb cable.
Also, back up your stuff. Flash Unlocking your phone to install a different OS erases everything on it (for security reasons).
Graphene isn’t dead. They just have slowed down a bit. They’ve already released their first Alpha for 16
DrunkAnRoot@sh.itjust.works
on 02 Jul 20:02
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very low on id say pixel 7 and up its a web installer so all you need is to back up all inlmportant files photos videos ids etc and plug your phone into a computer or another phone running graphene os and follow the guide
I had the same concern so I actually just bought a used newer pixel and started a fresh install of Graphene. It took me several weeks to learn how it works and migrate my accounts and switch to FOSS apps wherever I could.
So what happens if I have Gemini disabled overall on my phone?
Caketaco@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Jul 04:25
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Alright, is there some super-populated center for enthusiast nerds who make Androids less 1984 and shit? Like, the fdroid sub or something? I’m still on the ol’ Tim Cooker but when this thing croaks I’m switching teams. I don’t need Google getting sloppy seconds, though.
I mean, feels like everyone has a phone these days. Surely some niche sect of Internet nerds has a cutting edge solution for this shit.
Is it just GrapheneOS with FDroid apps? What about Google Play Store apps, can I use those without getting fucked? Can I retain nearly every stock feature on an Android without selling my soul to Google? Which Android phone should I buy if I want things to run smoothly with the modifications I need to make? (Are those new touch flip-phones on the menu? Are they more durable now? I fantasize about DS emulation, and slapping my phone together to hang up on people. I just remember hearing all about the highly scratch-able screens and hinge problems.)
eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 03 Jul 04:45
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GrapheneOS puts Play Services in a sandbox so it’s no longer rooted. You can restrict what parts of your filesystem each app has access to very strictly.
For now people still send me emails on Gmail, so I still have Gmail installed, but very limited permissions.
It’s a huge improvement.
You can also start sessions that entirely shut down Play Services so you’re living entirely with FOSS products.
I’m not quite there yet because I still use maps and drive and photos. Gonna figure out replacements, unfortunately nobody else has the traffic and live rerouting that Google maps does, even if you are willing to pay.
If you’ve got a pixel, highly recommend.
If you have a different relatively recent phone check out lineage or e/os.
Caketaco@lemmy.dbzer0.com
on 03 Jul 04:52
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Thank you. I could kiss you like a mother.
eestileib@lemmy.blahaj.zone
on 03 Jul 16:15
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What was the recent chatter about Google making it harder to update GrapheneOS? Did that develop into anything or was it just temporary?
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 03 Jul 05:46
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Random aside, I switched from Android to iOS a year ago. I miss Android already.
The UI is more convoluted an clunky than iOS from years ago, just as uncustomizable, and performs shockly bad on heavy webpages on a brand new 16+. It’s got no freaking RAM, no sd card slot. Some free FOSS apps are nonexistant or paid only.
Security and OOTB privacy is better and app support is generally better, but that’s about it? I’d probably keep an iPhone around to bank on when I eventually switch…
Weird, I have the opposite experience. After an S3 Mini and a Xiaomi Redmi 3 Pro, my gf let me try her iPhone 8 for a bit and I was amazed by how smooth it was running. I’ve bought a 11 Pro in early 2020 and have been using it ever since. Still works like on the day I’ve bought it, no slowdowns, smooth as hell. I did do a battery swap after the fourth year though.
I wouldn’t mind trying a Pixel with GrapheneOS though. But all Pixels are so large compared to the iPhone Pro lineup.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 03 Jul 15:11
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My last Android phone was a Razer Phone 2, SD845 circa 2018. Basically stock Android 9.
And it was smooth as butter. It had a 120hz screen while my iPhone 16 is stuck at 60, and I can feel it. And it flew through some heavy web apps I use while the iPhone chugs and jumps around, even though the new SoC should objectively blow away even modern Android devices.
It wasn’t always this way; iOS used to be (subjectively) so much faster that it’s not even funny, at least back when I had an iPhone 6S(?). Maybe there was an inflection point? Or maybe it’s only the case with “close to stock” Android stuff that isn’t loaded with bloat.
Maybe it’s the regular vs Pro lineup. I never had any experience with the regular lineup. I’ve bought my wife a 14 Pro, and the experience there is the same as on mine.
brucethemoose@lemmy.world
on 03 Jul 20:41
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Pro is 120hz.
But they are expensive as heck. I only got the 16 Plus because its a carrier loss leader, heh.
And wouldn’t fix some of my other quibbles with iOS’s inflexibility. My ancient jailbroken iPhone 4S was more customizable than now, and Apple is still slowly, poorly implementing features I had a decade ago.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip
on 03 Jul 04:39
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When they say WhatsApp I gotta think that would be the same for any third party conversation app right? I would never use whatsapp, and I would hope any security minded person wouldnt either. But I do rely on an opensource sms launcher and signal. I would assume the framework would make it mess with those too.
This sucks. Horribly sucks. I can’t stand apple products, they cant do anything. I know that even having google play on my android device means I am fucked anyways, but this is a new low from google.
Feels weird to buy a google pixel, only to be able to expect it is the best way to not have google on it. (grapheneos or similar).
buddascrayon@lemmy.world
on 03 Jul 05:38
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And how does this effect those of us that have completely disabled Gemini Assistant?
It doesn’t seem that way. After reading through the article a couple of times, it looks like the “no” they are referring to is regarding data recording of one’s actual use of the assistant. And since I don’t use the assistant and have completely disabled it, the shouldn’t be any data to record.
Though I do have to admit that I may be completely off base in my interpretation.
I haven’t read a single positive comment here, which is to be expected in this community.
But to be honest I kind of like the idea of an AI assistant that keeps track of my schedule, knows about my friends and what I am doing.
Of cause I would not use gemini and am happy that i dont have to care about it with e/OS.
But something that helps me keep track of things and can help me with stuff seems interesting. I’m interested to hear reviews of it
TheOneAndOnlyDeath@feddit.nl
on 03 Jul 18:18
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I hear you, it’s the same reason why I still have google maps in my e/OS phone, to see my history and give me more restaurants I can try.
But the compromise in my case and what everyone in this thread also knows is that the data you share will not only be yours.
I think no one here is against a powerful AI assistant that will help is with personal stuff and keeping track of everything, but having to share all your life with someone else is a huge fuck no. They would know way more than even your life partner.
If there was something mostly offline that we could use I think we’d be all up for it.
Graphene, Lineage, Calayx OS are all there. Pick one and never worry about this no control over your phone thing.
Personally only used graphene OS but I heard the others are similar.
threaded - newest
Interestingly, the same mentioned article from Android Police sells it as a “privacy win”. I’ve tried to read it as a positive spin, and I seriously don’t understand what these guys have been smoking.
androidpolice.com/upcoming-gemini-for-android-cha…
In a glass half full perspective, it won't send all your data to Google's servers. The part they are not saying is that the data even remotely related to your query is going to be sent to Google anyway. They are claiming they will delete the data after 72 hours, which I believe they will for now, but knowing them, there's probably going to be a sneaky policy update in a couple of years.
I completely agree, I guess what they call “privacy win” is that this feature can now work without storing data on Google (highlighted by me):
When they say
they sound like the companies trying to sell you these features without mentioning the privacy implications of said features. :/
Techbros don’t understand or care about consent
No-one in big business does.
Just grab em by the dongle
They got that idea “ask for forgiveness not permission” pushed to them by capitalist extremists for too long. I despise that concept in any context, whether justifying rape or violating privacy or anything else. But I even see it in TV shows these days portrayed as normal. Gross 🤮
They know what it is. But they think it’s optional, because us plebs don’t deserve a choice. They think they run our world because we use their platforms.
If you don’t want this stuff on your phone, lemme point you to:
GrapheneOS (Pixels only, has Most Security at Tinfoil Hat level while also providing compatibility for Google Play (optional, sandboxed) and SafetyNet)
CalyxOS (Pixels, Some Moto G 5G, Fairphone 5, 4, SHIFTphone 8, less Security than GrapheneOS but has Security)
LineageOS (Many older devices, runs unlocked boot so least Security but still can run sans google)
If we are on an old pixel (eg pixel 4) is it more or less secure to switch to graphene? Neither Google nor graphene are doing updates for that model anymore
I’ve thought of getting an 8 to put graphene on but the recent news from the project about Google making it harder on them has me pausing since I don’t fully understand what is affected.
I don’t want Gemeni anywhere near my messages and phone content.
You can put graphene on a 4. It won’t be supported but will be more secure. Still not recommended by me or grapheneos. They say that the reason they support pixels is due to the security, not the aosp support, and that they will continue to develop grapheneos. Android 16 is the first new build with the changes and grapheneos is testing it now iirc. I would personally recommend seeing how 16 goes (possibly post after the update hits stable asking for user feedback) and decide based on that. You should probably get something new as the complete lack of security updates is quite bad but that could help you decide whether to go with graphene. Personally, I am on grapheneos and am not worried about it.
You should not be worried according to GrapheneOS’s team.
Yup. They’re going to continue support as promised.
xcancel.com/GrapheneOS/…/1936420921931084075#m
…How about a 3?
Edit: Nevermind, just checked. I swear this is still a great phone.
I was considering a switch but due to recent policy changes at Google, I’m now concerned about long-term (or even short-term) support for GrapheneOS and other custom ROMs:
grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114671100848024807
I don’t know anything about tech. I don’t want to contribute anything to AI, but I’m afraid I’m going to brick my pixel if I install any of this. Here’s a question. If I let them steal my info, does that hurt other people, or just me?
Depends. Do you want the possibility of an AI model being able to fork over some private details in your convos? The potential for someone that doesn’t like what you believe in to subpoena google for this data?
As for bricking, it won’t, and the whole process is on the website, using a chrome-based browser and usb cable (it detects which pixel you have and does all the hard stuff) but you do have to back up your stuff as it will erase when it gets graphened.
There’s a lineagoOS fork that comes prepackages with microG as well, helping to keep google services style stuff working (maps links etc) without using any actual google services. It’s my daily driver, would recommend!
lineage.microg.org
YMMV - some stuff still flat out doesn’t work if it’s too reliant on google services. Graphene is definitely better in that regard, if you have a pixel.
Just disable Gemini completely.
That’s why degoogle community have more users recently !
Great, well bye bye Pixel 6a, about time anyways I guess. I knew it was only a matter of time before they did something to make these devices completely unbearable, “AI” bullshit has done it.
Just install GrapheneOS on your device and AI is pretty much gone
Just about to say the same, since he has a pixel phone…
Pretty much gone or fully gone?
Well the chip is still capable of using some “AI cores” and you can install AI app on it but by default it’s gone. I would assume that there is some algorithme in Android that have been setup using Machine Learning and that you could market as AI since everything that is automated or made by computer gets the label AI as it’s the new buzzword of Silicon Valley and technology but I wouldn’t call them AI myself.
I will definitely give it a shot, I’ve loaded an alternate OS on a phone before but it was more about customization then. Hopefully there will continue to be options like this for people who prefer to use their own brain and don’t mind pressing buttons instead of giving voice commands. I don’t want to talk to inanimate objects I talk to myself enough.
Well GrapheneOS is a a robust mobile OS built for security. It brings amazing privacy out-of-the-box and control features. You really own your phone! Not Google, not Big Techs and Government, YOU.
I will definitely give it a whirl, I also need to eventually switch my desktop to Linux as I’m still in W10, I used a lot of audio plugins (VST) that had no Linux versions but now I’m mostly hardware based. I just worry that there comes a time when it’s nigh on impossible to install an alternate OS on a phone but I suppose there will always be people trying to find a way.
Honestly I think that AlternativeOS will always be possible, the main issue is how compatible it will be with everyday apps that people rely on. We’ve started to see some compatibility issue with Play Integrity on GrapheneOS, with Revolut (has been fixed) and Alternate AppStore such as AuroraStore having some apps refusing to launch if not installed from PlayStore itself.
On the Linux side of thing you could see how your plugins performs on a VM and or see how Ardour plays with your hardware.
Revolut is fixed on grapheneOS? I had to uninstall it because of that.
Yes. Revolut prevented new users to login in a specific version of their app (the newer). Users that were already logged in could update the app without issue and users could use an older APK of Revolut to sign in. However the PlayIntegrity process that was banning their GrapheneOS users have been resolved and now the harden OS is whitelisted from Revolut.
At least that’s what I have followed/understood from the whole thing but I am not a Revolut user.
There’s more to it. It wasn’t Play Integrity blocking Graphene per se, but the fact that Revolut checked the build ID string, which was uniquely identifiable as Graphene for any build. This was then made more generic, so the block doesn’t work for now, but the workaround could break any moment and be made impossible by Revolut enforcing “strong” level of Play Integrity. Such bullshit.
Monopolistic behavior…
RE: Audio stuff I switched to bitwig long before I switched to Linux. Having familiarity with a DAW that ran natively was awesome; I also had a lot of plugins that ran as windows only VSTs. Yabridge + Wine was the answer.
You do have to downgrade wine to an older version (but this also helps you learn some Linux stuff) and works fairly well. I can even run omnisphere through yabridge (I do have a wild desktop tho so maybe not. the best point of comparison).
Mint is the first distro I used and most everything was really easy for getting audio stuff up and running quickly. I’m now using Garuda which I mostly like; there are issues that I’m still trying to work out.
Thanks, interestingly Garuda was at the top of my list but maybe I’ll just stick to Mint and not be fancy. Bitwig always interested me and if I decided to go back to a DAW I’m definitely taking a second look because I have a tracker background from way back and the modularity and easy hardware integration look great. I’m not too concerned about the plugins so much as the hardware now, there is no official support for the Black Lion audio interface I bought but I’m assured it should work fine under ALSA and as I’m currently only needing it to record a stereo pair it should be fine. The plugins I use now are mainly compressors and EQs for some final mixing and “mastering” and there seems to be a decent amount of choices now for native plugins in those areas but I do have some favs I might need to bring over so I will check Yabridge. Look forward to getting my hands dirty again, hacking windows has just becoming getting rid of nuisances instead of customizing my computing experience.
I can totally relate to this! Perfectly sentenced.
If you’d be interested in a tracker-like DAW, Renoise has a native Linux version.
For more traditional DAWS, Bitwig and Reaper are the two best Linux native options. Reaper is quite cheap, and also offers a trial version that just nags you like winrar.
I mean I like Garuda, but I would say it has taken a bit more to set up. I think if you’re running AMD you’ll be fine, it just depends on how much tinkering you want to do. Honestly the biggest reason I switched was that I had moved to Debian and games were not working too well for me - gaming has been much smoother but my desktop environment is a bit glitchy and buggy (likely due to my nvidia / Intel stuff)
Bitwig has better support on debian-ish distros, which mint kinda is (at least it is able to download and run .deb files).
Bitwig has been my favorite DAW since I began using it more in 2019, and as my only DAW fully but EoY '19; I enjoy all the flexibility I have with modules and the like.
I am unfamiliar with the Black Lion audio interface from what I’m reading it looks like they have class compliant interfaces so it should work with pipewire.
Ubuntu studio with the audio suite may be a good way to go too.
Depends on the total use case tho. I’m a newbie too in Linux but am happy to answer what I can
What phones can run graphene?
Ironically, only Pixels are supported at the moment.
Only non-carrier-locked Google Pixel phones. They have been talking about potential partnership with other OEM but it’s not easy with Google ToS for Android OEM manufacturer to support other OS officially. Also they have paranoid-level security model and beside a few company like Google, Apple and maybe Samsung few devices would meet their requierments… And you know, Samsung introduced Knox to prevent their users to flash other firmware or mod their hardware and the other one, Apple, is the company that killed the FOSS Cydia Store…
Phone carriers don’t want people “churning” (leaving their network for another) so they enforce the phone’s locking, especially if you buy the phone from the cell carrier, as they often advertise free phone or cheap phone on a payment plan, and use that to enforce people staying on their network.
GrapheneOS will feel very different, and quite a bit less of the “fun” customization options, since its goal is security.
I’m not a huge phone user to begin with so thats fine as long as I can change some colors here and there, I prefer less fancy tbh for instance I like the i386-dark theme here.
I am the same, so it wasn’t an issue for me either. I just wanted to confirm that you were not going to get the previous “fun” ROM experience.
Sadly they might not be able to update GrapheneOS to new Android versions anymore :(
That is a misleading claim right here, don’t blindly trust everything you read online. The core team of the project explained it very well why it’s not as dramatic as people made it seems too. It’s not an ideal position and Google is definitely going in a direction that doesn’t not benefit AOSP but no Android16 is comming to GrapheneOS and future version also should.
Could you please link this explanation?
grapheneos.social/@GrapheneOS/114721666000552094
Did they explicitly say anywhere that future versions should be coming as well? I only see them mentioning Android 16, and devices still being “supported”, but that could also mean improvements in Android 16.
From my understanding yes but maybe not in this thread
Fair enough, I hope you’re correct.
Then LineageOS, /e/ or whatever.
These projects suffer from the same issues with how Google share new Android versions. This is not a solution. Also if you have a Pixel I would personnaly use a secure locked bootloader OS rather than an unsecure unlocked bootloader. I tend to privilege /e/OS on Fairphone and LineageOS on phone that have already dropped support.
I really really want to but I can’t for another year because I’m still paying off my pixel. It’s still carrier locked and I can’t unlock it till it’s paid off.
Yep you can’t flash carrier locked Pixels, I hope you don’t have much longer to wait or that the time will fly fast
It’s rough…I still have another 13 months I think. But to the article, I don’t have the options in my phone that they’re talking about. Do you? Or has it just not rolled out to me yet?
I avoid running Google software on my devices so I don’t have the Gemini App
Fair. I think I had previously uninstalled Gemini when I first got my phone so maybe that’s why the app isn’t present? But the way that they are talking about it in the article, since Gemini seems to be replacing Assistant, maybe new settings will appear for me to mess around with…
I could be wrong, but I have a suspicion that you still won’t be able to once it’s paid off. I’ve run into the issue a few times in the past when buying an “unlocked” Pixel from Amazon that was carrier unlocked, but the bootloader was still not unlockable. A “carrier unlocked” phone allows you to use the phone on any carrier, but doesn’t always guarantee an unlockable bootloader.
Any idea how I could check? It doesn’t say anything any that I’m my carrier account…
I have a 6a, installed GrapheneOS though the web tool, very happy.
Thanks for the report, I just got basically forced to install the new 16 update after a week of swiping it away so I’ll have to get going on that, I’m so tired of digging through the settings after every update to check every one to turn off all the tracking, suggestions, etc. If those even do anything. Whack a mole.
settings > apps > gemini > disable/uninstall
I have the Gemini settings but the app does not appear here. Should I consider myself “safe” or is it cause it’s still called Assistant on my phone?
i believe assistant only became gemini this year (or with the latest android update)
previously you could install and uninstall gemini as you wish.
We use Chromebooks at my work (along with the whole Google suite), and we are bound by the rules of HIPAA. Without a way to opt out of this AI crap, I increasingly worry about what all of this means for our clients’ privacy. Especially with this administration, with RFK deadset on targeting people with disabilities.
Assuming you mentioning HIPAA and disabilities, you must probably work in the healthcare industry. What kind of backwater hospital/healthcare company uses chromebook?! I know chromebooks are prelevant in the education industry but healthcare.... They are cheap but Google makes up that money through Google Workplace vendor lock in! Man.... I have seen Linux running on hospitals even in 3rd world countries.... If you can, please quit that job! A healthcare workplace using chromebooks will not give a damn to employee's privacy!
I did care before COVID, and the chromebooks were the safe option. Some sites had desktop computers available, but those had no antivirus and we logged into the admin account with full permissions.
I was at a specialist’s office and noticed they were using Windows XP. This was 3 years ago.
Windows XP might be more secure soon than any machine running Gemini
Privacy =/= Security. Windows XP might have good privacy (I would argue Windows 2000 is better for that, as it doesn’t have Product Activation), but security is nonexistant in 2025 in either case. For malware, it’s free real estate.
This makes me so happy I’m using Graphine OS. Also the entire idea that there “not storing my history” I don’t trust them. They have already been sued multiple times over keeping ingogneto data.
No, it’s really not. Primarily, because I’m using LineageOS with absolutely no Google services at all installed.
I believe most people who care about privacy don’t trust Gemini or Google in general. So it’s not an issue if you already not using Gemini app. It can be uninstalled (at least for now) even without going alternative ROM way
There's no option to uninstall on my neighbor's phone.
I went outside my comfort zone and installed Lineage on my old Pixel, only to find out I couldn’t get wi-fi calling, so I reverted to my Google OS. Oh no. Any options other than Lineage or a new phone? This 6 year old phone works great except for the lack of updates, and except for the upcoming Gemini updates :( I’m struggling.
Edit: Ubuntu Touch, anybody?
Edit 2: Looks like VoLTE isn’t supported on Ubuntu, either. Any idea why?
Graphene?
I believe I’m too old with my 3a. I’ve been considering getting a used 5, 6, 7, or 8 off ebay but I worry that support will run out. Any idea if that’s true?
No they will support these device as long as Google does.
That’s what I expected, but had hoped there would be additional legacy support. Google previously only supported Pixels for 3 years, right? They may be more competitive with Apple now, but that’s still only 6-7 years. In that case, if I buy an old Pixel on ebay it’s not likely to have much of a run left.
My issues with Lineage are related, although they obviously try to give legacy support (perhaps without the ability to make full security updates), but we still run into functionality issues like my lack of wi-fi calling. I don’t think that is so much about the age of the phone as it is due to tech/frequency updates that are non-compatible with some older devices, and proprietary opaqueness in the Google code. I wish Lineage would at least list this issue on their wiki, phone by phone, as that would make it easier for me to decide on my next step.
I hear a tiny dev team made some VoLTE progress in the Linux world, but I am way over my head in trying to understand exactly what’s going on. I think they’ve got an Ubuntu Touch device working with VoLTE for the first time? Does it work in the US? Does it have Wi-fi calling? I have many questions but need to keep reading. (I know VoLTE is different from VoWiFi, but I see them used interchangeably at times.)
GrapheneOS is the way to go with a Pixel phone. Wifi calling works just fine on my Pixel 8. As does VoLTE.
I don’t believe they support the 3a. I’m really vintage.
Any idea how long support will last for the 8? I feel a little burned by the lack of support for the 3a, though I understand that a) 6 years for a phone is a good run in this wasteful world, and b) wifi calling on the 3a hasn’t been dropped by choice, but is actually a complicated issue that small #s of devs are still working on.
Google Pixel 8 October 2030 7 years
grapheneos.org/faq#device-lifetime
Great link, thank you. I’m so used to desperately trying to make this old 3a work that I didn’t realize they’d listed out support expectations for more recent models.
I believe the Pixel 9a is also available. You might snag that one instead of an 8a just to give yourself another year of support.
VoLTE isn’t yet supported in Linux because no one has yet completed writing an open source implementation. Unfortunately, phone manufacturers, chip manufacturers, and cell carriers all hold these cards very close to their chests, so drivers have to be written from scratch by reverse engineering the protocols, which are encrypted on top of being completely nebulous. Support is coming, eventually, but it takes an extraordinary amount of time and effort to do this, which nobody has time to do.
So a system-wide wiretap?
.
Is this also true about ChromeOS?
“Not my messages and calls,” laughs in iPhones
So I just went to the app in my neighbor's phone, and it asked me to switch. I said no, and it won't let me do anything else. So will this need to be done next week?
Living the good life over here:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/495914cd-e516-4f69-ae9f-568e8e76b463.png">
How much of a risk is GraphenOS to install? I really don’t wanna brick my phone.
What phone do you have?
Pixel 6, I believe.
That can run Graphene.
grapheneos.org
Only for Google Pixel phones. The install process is right there. You just need a chromium-based browser (chrome, edge, vivaldi, opera, brave, etc.), an Unlocked Pixel, and the usb cable.
Also, back up your stuff. Flash Unlocking your phone to install a different OS erases everything on it (for security reasons).
Google stopped releasing sources . Graphene is likely dead
Graphene isn’t dead. They just have slowed down a bit. They’ve already released their first Alpha for 16
very low on id say pixel 7 and up its a web installer so all you need is to back up all inlmportant files photos videos ids etc and plug your phone into a computer or another phone running graphene os and follow the guide
I had the same concern so I actually just bought a used newer pixel and started a fresh install of Graphene. It took me several weeks to learn how it works and migrate my accounts and switch to FOSS apps wherever I could.
So what happens if I have Gemini disabled overall on my phone?
Alright, is there some super-populated center for enthusiast nerds who make Androids less 1984 and shit? Like, the fdroid sub or something? I’m still on the ol’ Tim Cooker but when this thing croaks I’m switching teams. I don’t need Google getting sloppy seconds, though.
I mean, feels like everyone has a phone these days. Surely some niche sect of Internet nerds has a cutting edge solution for this shit.
Is it just GrapheneOS with FDroid apps? What about Google Play Store apps, can I use those without getting fucked? Can I retain nearly every stock feature on an Android without selling my soul to Google? Which Android phone should I buy if I want things to run smoothly with the modifications I need to make? (Are those new touch flip-phones on the menu? Are they more durable now? I fantasize about DS emulation, and slapping my phone together to hang up on people. I just remember hearing all about the highly scratch-able screens and hinge problems.)
GrapheneOS puts Play Services in a sandbox so it’s no longer rooted. You can restrict what parts of your filesystem each app has access to very strictly.
For now people still send me emails on Gmail, so I still have Gmail installed, but very limited permissions.
It’s a huge improvement.
You can also start sessions that entirely shut down Play Services so you’re living entirely with FOSS products.
I’m not quite there yet because I still use maps and drive and photos. Gonna figure out replacements, unfortunately nobody else has the traffic and live rerouting that Google maps does, even if you are willing to pay.
If you’ve got a pixel, highly recommend. If you have a different relatively recent phone check out lineage or e/os.
Thank you. I could kiss you like a mother.
🫂
Mama Bear hug.
What was the recent chatter about Google making it harder to update GrapheneOS? Did that develop into anything or was it just temporary?
Random aside, I switched from Android to iOS a year ago. I miss Android already.
The UI is more convoluted an clunky than iOS from years ago, just as uncustomizable, and performs shockly bad on heavy webpages on a brand new 16+. It’s got no freaking RAM, no sd card slot. Some free FOSS apps are nonexistant or paid only.
Security and OOTB privacy is better and app support is generally better, but that’s about it? I’d probably keep an iPhone around to bank on when I eventually switch…
Weird, I have the opposite experience. After an S3 Mini and a Xiaomi Redmi 3 Pro, my gf let me try her iPhone 8 for a bit and I was amazed by how smooth it was running. I’ve bought a 11 Pro in early 2020 and have been using it ever since. Still works like on the day I’ve bought it, no slowdowns, smooth as hell. I did do a battery swap after the fourth year though.
I wouldn’t mind trying a Pixel with GrapheneOS though. But all Pixels are so large compared to the iPhone Pro lineup.
My last Android phone was a Razer Phone 2, SD845 circa 2018. Basically stock Android 9.
And it was smooth as butter. It had a 120hz screen while my iPhone 16 is stuck at 60, and I can feel it. And it flew through some heavy web apps I use while the iPhone chugs and jumps around, even though the new SoC should objectively blow away even modern Android devices.
It wasn’t always this way; iOS used to be (subjectively) so much faster that it’s not even funny, at least back when I had an iPhone 6S(?). Maybe there was an inflection point? Or maybe it’s only the case with “close to stock” Android stuff that isn’t loaded with bloat.
Maybe it’s the regular vs Pro lineup. I never had any experience with the regular lineup. I’ve bought my wife a 14 Pro, and the experience there is the same as on mine.
Pro is 120hz.
But they are expensive as heck. I only got the 16 Plus because its a carrier loss leader, heh.
And wouldn’t fix some of my other quibbles with iOS’s inflexibility. My ancient jailbroken iPhone 4S was more customizable than now, and Apple is still slowly, poorly implementing features I had a decade ago.
When they say WhatsApp I gotta think that would be the same for any third party conversation app right? I would never use whatsapp, and I would hope any security minded person wouldnt either. But I do rely on an opensource sms launcher and signal. I would assume the framework would make it mess with those too.
This sucks. Horribly sucks. I can’t stand apple products, they cant do anything. I know that even having google play on my android device means I am fucked anyways, but this is a new low from google.
Feels weird to buy a google pixel, only to be able to expect it is the best way to not have google on it. (grapheneos or similar).
And how does this effect those of us that have completely disabled Gemini Assistant?
Seems like you’d fall under the “even if you say no” category
It doesn’t seem that way. After reading through the article a couple of times, it looks like the “no” they are referring to is regarding data recording of one’s actual use of the assistant. And since I don’t use the assistant and have completely disabled it, the shouldn’t be any data to record.
Though I do have to admit that I may be completely off base in my interpretation.
I haven’t read a single positive comment here, which is to be expected in this community. But to be honest I kind of like the idea of an AI assistant that keeps track of my schedule, knows about my friends and what I am doing. Of cause I would not use gemini and am happy that i dont have to care about it with e/OS. But something that helps me keep track of things and can help me with stuff seems interesting. I’m interested to hear reviews of it
I hear you, it’s the same reason why I still have google maps in my e/OS phone, to see my history and give me more restaurants I can try.
But the compromise in my case and what everyone in this thread also knows is that the data you share will not only be yours.
I think no one here is against a powerful AI assistant that will help is with personal stuff and keeping track of everything, but having to share all your life with someone else is a huge fuck no. They would know way more than even your life partner.
If there was something mostly offline that we could use I think we’d be all up for it.
Graphene, Lineage, Calayx OS are all there. Pick one and never worry about this no control over your phone thing. Personally only used graphene OS but I heard the others are similar.
I am just using oneui but I’m not even signed into a google account surely Gemini won’t be after me?