Any good Telegram alternative?
from TheDorkfromYork@lemm.ee to privacy@lemmy.ml on 28 Aug 23:26
https://lemm.ee/post/40899419
from TheDorkfromYork@lemm.ee to privacy@lemmy.ml on 28 Aug 23:26
https://lemm.ee/post/40899419
I tried SimpleX but the VPN kill switch on my phone prevents syncing with my computer.
I use telegram primarily as a note taking app with sync features.
Occasionally I send files to friends, so having easy set up for tech illiterate would be great.
#privacy
threaded - newest
Signal?
edit / wait - an alternative for telegram as a note taking app??
There’s a note to self feature in Signal
there are decent note apps, like notally, that are smaller than 2mb 🤷
f-droid.org/packages/com.kin.easynotes/ 3mb
f-droid.org/packages/io.github.quillpad/ 4.6 and it can sync
f-droid.org/packages/org.fossify.notes/ 8.9
and than there’s joplin
Standard Notes is my go to for notes 100%. It’s all about privacy through encryption and is FOSS. Plus for this specific scenario, it also allows for notes export.
standardnotes.com/download
I don’t disagree, but taking notes in Signal gets you syncing automatically which is convenient and something OP asked for 🤷
And you’ll have fewer apps installed on your phone, which is something I’ve come to value lately.
Friends used telegram so I had the app installed. It was easier to store documents in telegram than in one drive or proton drive, so telegram became my go too. Obviously not the best setup, but it worked and was easy. I’ll try out Signal and Matrix, but continence is a big factor in my choice.
Proton drive has free tier. Not sure if it is as easy as tele for doc storage but holy-shit tele really doing it.
People rave about it.
Signal
So easy to setup my tech illiterate parents could do it.
Now try without a phone number. Go ahead. Try
I think the intent is baby steps for those who aren’t already privacy invested. Getting parents or tech illiterate to switch to Signal is a win. They weren’t hiding their number anyway.
I currently have a Signal account tied to a sim not in my name. Getting a burner with cash is an option then park it. Or, if you’re lucky enough to live near a payphone and can gain access to the number, you can activate a signal with a phone call.
@Sparkega @delirious_owl
Have you ever used Wire?
Not as good as some others around
Not even that. Go set it up even with a phone number but without a smartphone.
Let’s just say my mom would not be able to do that.
You can’t
That’s not the point though
Signal can’t do shit Canit sync messages b/w devices seamlessly? Doe it have unlimited storage? Channels? Isn’t upload size limit 100mb? Telegram has 4gb. Advance Bots? Good Ui/Ux? High quality stickers? Big public groups? Mini apps? Lol, signal is NOT an alternative to telegram as a whole, it can only partly replace its messaging functionality
Signal is private. This is c/privacy.
Telegram is not private at all, but has channels and big groups and even, yes, mini-apps.
So Telegram is not an alternative to Signal either, it doesn’t even start solving problems that are solved genially in Signal.
And the post is about telegram alternative?
Try Nostr, I dunno. Or VKontakte if you want the Telegram functionality of sending transcripts of your communications to FSB.
Ok conspiracy theorist signal fan
You should learn something about things you use before talking about conspiracy theories.
I think Matrix is the way to go because you can host your own server and be completely self hosting without a 3rd party involved.
I’ve gone this route. Not for the faint of heart. If you’re not self-hosting savvy, but you know someone that hosts a server, absolutely sign up with them. Or use a local public server like pikaviestin.fi, which provides accounts for finnish citizens.
This. I‘m hosting a couple matrix servers and have many friends who have a ton of issues. It really depends on the admin and how tech savvy everyone involved is. If you cant be arsed to understand how key sharing works and check out which is the best client for you, matrix might bot be the best choice. I love it, personally but I suggest it rarely since tech illiterate users tend to get really upset about a free product not matching their insane standards.
To add to this, XMPP is much cheaper to host and offers basically the same features when it comes to what OP needs. I host Prosody and it uses so little resources you could probably get it running on the cheapest server you could find.
It's probably 15 years ago I used XMPP the last time. Back then there were many compatibility problems between the apps and especially on the mobile phone with push notifications, etc. There were problems sending media and VOIP calls were non existent outside of the Google clients.
My guess is that some of those things improved but I have not heard anyone in my circles using it, especially since Matrix became a bit more popular, most of the Open Source projects on IRC also moved to Matrix.
Yeah, XMPP has changed a loooott since then.
XMPP's main problems at the moment are clients, in my opinion. There's 3 main clients for PC; one is 100% python (including frontend) and breaks semi-regularly, one does not officially support Windows and thus cuts out a large portion of the community + doesn't have as many features as others, and one lacks features and looks extremely outdated. The state on iOS is even worse as well, and Android is fine but could be better.
If you're considering XMPP again, I'd recommend waiting a few months for Prose https://prose.org/ to fully release, it looks like it'll improve the experience a lot.
Can you provide names of these clients you’re mentioning?
Python: Gajim
Doesn't support Windows: Dino
Outdated: PSI+
Dino is nice in GNOME as it’s native Gtk which gets you a nicely integrated and modern look and feel. It’s a little low on feature but fully usable.
No, they moved to libera.chat
yeah, it’s “considerable amount”, not “the most”
From a security standpoint it leaves something to be desired but for just notes it is fine.
Well signal also has the note to self.
People will hate this, but WhatsApp is probably the second best and convenient to most people. (But if your friends are willing to get signal, do it.) In fact it was always better than telegram, there I said it.
Also there’s many great note taking apps that have a sync feature. Joplin for one.
Out of the fire and into the pot
joplin and all the others who want to run yet another web browser in parralel on your resource constrained phone.
I know, my fault that my phone does not have at least 16 GB of RAM…
about whatsapp: used it for years. it’s not any better. the only part in which it could be is encryption, but only if
Just a heads up about people’s suggestions on signal. If you don’t open your desktop client often and it needs to be logged back in it will not sync your latest notes to self messages (perhaps other messages too).
To be clear, this is a feature, not a bug
This is true.
Maybe Joplin…
Honestly? For that limited use, there’s really no need to switch.
However, if you’re willing to do a little extra effort, Join, by joao apps can do what you’re wanting. The notes is easy as pie. Sending files to your own devices is easy. Then you just need a different file sharing method for others.
It’s not a 1:1 replacement, obviously, but sending files via email, or other methods, when it’s only occasional isn’t something that needs to be part of a messenger service that you aren’t primarily using for messages in the first place. Keeping all your eggs in one basket isn’t always as good.
Telegram as a note taking app?.. Now that’s one I haven’t heard before
You'd be surprised what people have been doing with Telegram's 'unlimited storage'.
A gmail strat
Must be why France wanted Durov.
Sounds like a fun project for a filesystem class
Has a strong smell of: xkcd.com/1172/
Signal.
Signal is not available for Android tablets, which was a deal breaker when I tried to move my family off Telegram.
Tablets can’t run mobile apps?
Signal needs a phone number
“Don’t you guys have phones?”
Also, I htought 99% of tablets connect to the mobile network using a SIMcard, but even if you rely only on wifi, see my previous quote.
Nope
which does not need to be in the tablet
It does. The Signal app for Android does not support being a secondary device. It must be the primary device with a phone number.
In addition, whatever Play Store settings they use excluded all of our tablets, even the one that had a SIM. Manually installing the APK worked for this case, but that didn’t really solve our problem.
do you mean that it does not have a prompt for the SMS code anymore, and it reads the code only from the received SMS?
that’s a weird choice, I thought a main goal of them was user freedom
What do you mean? Modern Android apps work on all kinds of devices. Maybe the Android version on the tablet is too old?
It is in fact available for tablets
Only iPads.
And and device running Android
Unfortunately the Signal recommended by many people may not work for you, it cannot work on multiple mobile devices at the same time, for example on a smartphone and tablet.
I don’t understand why no one recommends Jami? It’s the only messenger that works without a server at all. And yes, it has the ability to forward messages to itself (to use as a note) and works on any devices at the same time.
I am using Signal on two android phones, one android tablet and a linux PC. What do you mean it cannot work on multiple devices?
You have to manually switch.
Not the same.
It works on up to 5 devices at the same time. I’ve used signal on my phone, with it also open on my computer with zero problems. Syncing is instantaneous.
Open Signal rewiews on GooglePlay, there’s every third review about this situation. I forgot to mention, i’m talking about the Android version. The ios version works on ipad at the same time
I would describe Jami as “not good”
For starters they lack a security audit and review. It is a huge code base and no one seems to have looked to close.
Next it doesn’t work reliably. Messages frequently get lost in the network and will never arrive.
The nail in the coffin is the broken UI and app instability.
I use Joplin for notes.
I just have some syncthing shared folders with friends/family. It may be a little weird to set up, but once there, it’s seamless.
@TheDorkfromYork
YMMV, but my minimum requirements were:
1. Federated just like lemmy or mastodon or email, so I can choose a server or even selfhost.
2. First class clients for Linux available, not only Android/iOS, no Electron bloatware.
3. No phone number involved.
That rules out Signal, Whatsapp and some more. Matrix fits. However I prefer #Jabber a.k.a. #XMPP. Matter of taste, I guess 🤷
PS: "Note to yourself", incl. file upload, is supported by all servers and most clients, AFAIK.
@debacle @TheDorkfromYork I'm still waiting for #gajim 1.9 to be available under #archlinux … (I don't want to install the flatpak). Yes #xmpp is the way and #quicksy help me convert some people.
Snikket seems nice as well.
Jabber and XMPP aren’t really alternatives as they are just protocols. They don’t have a stable feature set and aren’t necessarily encrypted by default.
@possiblylinux127
The #Jabber feature sets are defined in the compliance suite, e.g. here:
"XEP-0479: #XMPP Compliance Suites 2023"
https://xmpp.org/extensions/xep-0479.html#im
Many Jabber clients do end-to-end encryption by default. I would not care too much in the age of #surveillance directly at the source, i.e. on the device 🤷
If you want an even more coherent feature set and also be sure, all your clients encrypt by default, your best bet is #Snikket by @snikket_im. Highly recommended!
The by default is the problem
I was a Signal defender (although I still use it because it’s better than Telegram or WhatsApp) but now I’m more pushing for DeltaChat, Matrix and XMPP.
Most matrix clients just collect loads of data, so meh
well if you accept it at the setup, then yeah, it does
All of those are worse
Worse than what? Fully featured chat, E2EE, can be self-hosted and federated. They have it all.
I know that habit of using messenger app for notes :) Try [matrix] using Element or SchildiChat. It’s e2eencrypted and federated, and even supports markdown formatting in messages. Also some Slack features are included. The only issue for non-techy person might be verifying sessions - just be sure to use the same client on all devices.
signal is the simplest alternative, it’s actually better than telegram since it doesn’t save data
I think for your use case Signal could be a good alternative, don’t listen to what people say, I would rather encourage you doing ylur own research on Signal and other recommendations you might gonna consider.
Sorry for a bit of off-topic, but for a note taking app I suggest checking out Amplenote (there is a free plan for browser and mobile apps). I discovered it recently and it’s quite a life changer for me. Proper tag system for notes is a killer feature.
None Signal is shit
There are lots of options. Why are you using a chat app for note taking?
Couldn’t you just get a markdown note app that syncs with something like syncthing?
I don’t know their exact use case, but I use it a lot to save links. They can be saved very quick to the saved messages “chat”.
However, recently I got a new phone and now the Matrix client is also opening quickly, instead of taking 10+ seconds, so I’ll switch to sending them to a private room with me being the only participant.
But! I think Markor (from F-droid) also allows sharing arbitrary text to a file, so that could work too. A chat app may be better, though, because it records exact timestamps, and always records linksas a distinct message, so it may be more suitable for your own automated processing later.
If I want to share something with a friend, I can invite them to note chats or bulk forward files. Messages are separate, I can forward individual message rather than all messages. It’s more continent than notes apps I’ve tried.