Say Goodbye to the Internet as We Know It
(europeanconservative.com)
from pylapp@programming.dev to privacy@lemmy.ml on 28 Jul 23:18
https://programming.dev/post/34699056
from pylapp@programming.dev to privacy@lemmy.ml on 28 Jul 23:18
https://programming.dev/post/34699056
About the Online Safety Act in the UK and the Digital Services Act in Europe
threaded - newest
they finally passed it.
they will keep trying on other countries until they succeed too.
I’ve already said goodbye to “the internet” 3 times. Social media destroyed web 2.0, which destroyed the original web, which destroyed the original Usenet and telnet internet.
i’m looking forward to the more decentralized internet that’s brewing up here.
The web is still heavily centralized.
it is. it won’t change overnight though.
If someone has a suggestion/link on how a decentralized web grows past DNS I’m all ears.
DNS can be decentralized: www.nlnetlabs.nl/projects/unbound/about/
Something like Lemmy could form a pretty good foundation. Onion routing already has created a "parallel internet" that depends 0% on DNS, and Lemmy instances would federate today (with whitelisted federation) via /etc/hosts with no DNS involved. It wouldn't work well, it would have problems, but if someone actually tried to make it work moderately well, the whole model of "admins running servers which it's your problem to get connected to, and then they know how to federate to each other because all the admins talk with each other" could work itself around over time into something that actually had some pretty strong robustness to it.
There are other attempts (Holepunch, Freenet, all that jazz), but actually Tor and Fedi things probably have the best claims to being able to turn into something realistic that didn't need DNS, over time. You just couldn't talk to it until you set your machine up to be able to get the initial connection going, but that's not fatal, the whole internet used to be a lot like that way back when.
It’s also much bigger than it was back in the day.
Even a fraction of a percent of people using decentralized services is probably bigger than the early web ever was.
Let start from root of problem. Network with name internet entirely centralized and controlled by specific companies and people.
If these types of laws keep coming there might be a lot of legal liability for running instances of things
yeah i think that’s what they ultimately want. control all the “information” we get.
we should be organizing more thoroughly to combat this sort of thing that will undoubtedly be more and more common.
Any ideas for that? My main thought is to further develop technology for the anonymous web and get people using it, although probably some form of overtly political activism is also needed
yup that’s the idea, the usual proven methods for pressuring the state will work. extending this to the internet in the form of stuff like boycotting, ddosing, and general disrupting might prove interesting too.
we just need the people organized for this first, that’s the hard part. that will probably have to happen outside the internet first though.
Fascists get mad when people are educated.
You delete comments & have an emoji for a username. Go back to Facebook or wherever you belong. We don’t want people like you on the “better internet”
Yet people like you discourage normal ppl from using federated alternatives. Only true nerd can bear sharing a server with somebody like you.
ok, i will change to a more palatable username for your sensitivities.
i will also gladly dox myself for you, here:
coming from a conservative media outlet instantly tanks any claim's credibility imo
I have read maybe half, and the cringe in this piece is intense.
Imagine plauding
Musk’s commitment to maintaining free speech on X.I mean, there are problem with the DSA and there are plenty with Online Safety Act, but maybe try to SIMP for fascist Big Tech a little more discreetly?
Is it possible to start a new one?
Mass migrate to IRC?
IRC doesn’t handle being disconnected. That’s why matrix has essentially replaced it
You self host the lounge and never disconnect
The problem is not the internet itself. If you started a new internet protocol, you’d still be controlled by the same laws
Same shit coming to Australia
We’re so fucked and people don’t even realize that.
The enshittification of life as we know it.
Funny how freeze peach sublimates directly into censorship vapor the moment liberals lose their cultural hegemony.
Dude you're on the instance where it is forbidden in worldnews to say "Fuck (a particular country which will remain nameless)".
Literally the only one. You can say "Fuck the United States" or "Fuck Israel" everywhere on Lemmy, or near enough, which of course is as it should be. But if I start stepping on the wrong massive state actors' toes from one particular instance...
The difference is that communists accept the need for censorship and are open about why some ideas need to be suppressed. However, liberals hypocritically claim to stand for free speech and claim this is the key differentiating factor between liberal democracies and socialist systems, but only tolerate speech that they deem acceptable.
Because some ideas are so destructive to your whole model that they have to be suppressed, because these models in their practical application are often sort of un-defendable, and so the only option is to have secret police running around shooting dissidents.
It doesn't mean that liberal democracies don't fall into the exact same pattern, to some extent large or small. It is in the nature of human power struggle. It's not innate to any particular political system (or it is innate to all of them because they're all made of people). The difference is that we don't celebrate it or make excuses for it. We publish books about what a lie the government is telling, we have a constant struggle between the forces of freedom in the streets and the government trying to stamp it out. Sometimes different factions get the upper hand, or it switches.
The difference, as you brilliantly demonstrated here, is that some of the most thickheaded of communist supporters get themselves turned around sufficiently that they start supporting the government trying to stamp it out. Most sensible people, when the government tells them that some ideas need to be suppressed, and they need to imprison or shoot anyone who's opposing their power, can figure out that's a bad thing. You apparently cannot.
Except you do constantly make excuses for it, as you brilliantly demonstrated here. You want to pretend that you support more freedoms than communists, but in practice you just champion your own set of capitalist values.
Okay, this is clearly going to be a waste of time. Tell you what: You're clearly never going to admit that you're wrong about this, and obviously I can't force you. It seems like you're actually sort of enjoying how easy it is just to keep typing "freedom is an illusion anyway and that's why I had all the opposition shot and that makes perfect sense" and similar things and no one can stop you.
Let's do this: Tell me a format within which we can have this conversation, and get some kind of feedback or judgement about who it is that's able to prove their case. If you want to propose a framing of some sort, and go within that, I'm happy to talk about it with you. If not, I think it's just going to be you insisting that Stalin-style/Trump-style governance is justified until I get bored or frustrated and abandon the conversation.
I’m not a debate pervert. I’ve made my point clearly here already. I don’t need to convince you of anything. The fact that you use Trump and Stalin in the same sentence shows profound ignorance on your part. There is no point attempting to have a discussion with people who have strong opinions on subjects they have no understanding of. I’ll leave you with what the CIA had to say on the subject. I would hope you’d use this as an opportunity to educate yourself, but I know that you will not.
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/3e90f4de-3db4-4d36-aa9a-b08899e4247f.png">
www.cia.gov/…/CIA-RDP80-00810A006000360009-0.pdf
I mean it definitely sounds like you are lol
They both aspire to throw their domestic enemies into a network of shadowy prison camps or kill them outright, they both claim the establishment opposition needs to be disposed of, they both claim that censorship is necessary because some ideas are wrong and the leader needs to be in control so he can keep the wrong ideas away. There are some important differences, too, but certainly they belong in the same sentence. Trump's just a lot less effective, is actually the main difference I see.
Sounds good! Let me check your qualifications, that's a really good point, I did have a sense that there was no point to having this conversation with you, and this sort of gets to the heart of why lol.
🙄
It's okay if you don't know! I think you do, though, at least most of these answers you are probably aware of. I'll make them simpler so there's no time needed to put together a little essay or anything (which is probably better anyway, since it'll be less subjective). One or two word answers.
I know, I know, you don't want to participate. It's easier just to talk down to me and soapbox, and from that format you can really easily refuse to analyze things that you don't want to analyze that undo your mental models if you do analyze them. But there's no reason you would be unwilling just to admit the answers, since your model is super-correct and I'm the wrong one.
Up to you
I just love how you keep acting like these questions haven’t been answered time and again. As if you came up with some novel line of questioning nobody has ever thought before. Go read a book for once in your life. Here’s one you can start with. welshundergroundnetwork.cymru/…/blackshirts-and-r…
And here’s how people who actually live in China characterize their modern government in one or two words. If you spent as much time educating yourself on the subjects you wish to debate instead of making a clown of yourself in public, you wouldn’t have to ask questions like this and em brass yourself.
You’re like a living embodiment of the Dunning-Kruger effect.
Were you under the impression I thought I was the first person to come up with these ideas or questions? In history? No, the point is that you don't want to answer them, not that they were somehow untouched by scholarship.
I'm happy to make the same offer for you, you can try to expose the flaws in my thinking by trying to ask questions I really don't want to admit the answers to or am just unaware of.
But like I say, it's clear that you prefer soapboxing to that sort of interactive discussion (even the Playskool version of it with one word answers). I wonder why...
The point is that I, and many other people, have answered these questions many times. If you’re personally ignorant on the subject, then spend the time to educate yourself. You can start with the materials I’ve provided you. It’s not my job to educate you. I perfect having interactive discussion with people who understand the subject they’re discussing and want to have a discussion in good faith. It’s very transparent that you are not.
I’ll let you have the last word here which you so desperately need.
Bye.
Everyone knows throwing a fit when people ask the wrong questions and storming off the stage is a demonstration of unassailable right-being 🙂
Give it a rest, perv
🙂
You can write fuck China on Lemmy.ml if it’s relevant and motivated. The difference is that it’s always obvious why the USA and Israel should be condemned. I think China’s Israel stance is super weak, and I doubt I’d get mod pushback for saying that in an article about how China keeps selling genocide-equipment to Israel during a genocide. Or about how China is pushing for a two-state solution instead of saying Israel is illegitimate and should be dismantled.
If you go “Fuck Cameroon” on an unrelated post, for example this one, a mod would rightly tell you to be civil or at least explain yourself. And if you then justify yourself on a basis of white supremacy or conspiracy theories as you are bound to do, then that reasoning will be rejected.
Europeanconservative, really?
It’s encouraging to see support for anti-censorship across the political spectrum
The UK populace doesn’t get nearly enough shit for all of the bullshit they have caused. They are the fucking Alabama of Europe.
You can tell by the way their teeth are 🧐
The 80s called, they want their weird jokes back.
The ruling British class, sure. The average British citizen is impacted by this, rather than enacting the change though.
It’s kind of like how a select few people in the states decide healthcare shouldn’t be affordable, and everyone else just has to accept it; despite living in one of the richest countries in the history of the human race.
The reality is both nations have the same group of people pulling the strings behind the scenes; anyone who believes they have any say in either country is either not paying attention, or an idiot.
“What we are witnessing right now is the death of the free internet and the birth of a new digital dictatorship. No longer can we be trusted to decide for ourselves what content is appropriate or correct. Everything must instead be filtered through the state’s definition of ‘safety,’ telling us what is safe to say, see, or believe. Under the guise of protecting children and fighting ‘hate,’ governments are creating the most comprehensive censorship apparatus the West has ever seen.”
Nothing to do with the states definition of safety, but just an excuse to do more surveillance and collect more data.
I can’t help but think this could have been avoided if people would take some responsibility and turn on parental controls for their kids. 90% of the shit they’re trying to “protect the children” from would be invisible and they wouldn’t have this trojan horse stuffed with fascism.
Anybody who believes this is for safety is braindead.
Hard agree. My point was that the “safety” premise would be unworkable politically if so many people didn’t just let young kids loose with unrestricted smartphones in the first place.
Personally I believe the world was a better place before the Internet existed. It was more personal, more local. The billionaire tech class was created by the Internet and are actively damaging the world for their own personal gain. Good mental health is almost non-existent for those who are always online - and that is a purposeful construct so that they will be online more and create even more revenue for the tech billionaires. The initial romantic notion that the internet would provide education and information and connection has been dwarfed by the damage it has caused. The most ‘internet raised generation - Gen Z’ is notoriously disconnected and isolated compared to previous generations. In short, if the Internet ceased to exist tomorrow, a decade from now the world would probably be a better place.
I hate to tell you but there were billionaires and multi-millionaires way before the internet and they were damaging the world horrendously for greed and personal gain. They even have this system structured around allowing them to do that called capitalism.
So no the internet didn’t create that. Capitalism created that. Just as it created the climate change denial oil industry and the people who made money off of destroying the planet with that and would still be doing so without the internet. Just as it made dishonest press barons who loved Nazi Germany such as Randolph Hearst way before the internet existed and for a more modern example Rupert Murdoch. Just as before that it created incentives to hide and denial tobacco caused cancer or that asbestos caused cancer and other diseases or that lead poisoned us especially children. And on and on. Or the Triangle Shirt-waist fire and thousands of incidents just like that around the world where people are killed in poorly maintained factories kept that way out of greed. Or companies that pump poison into the water and air because it’s cheaper. I could go on forever.
Yeah I’d say capitalism ruined the Internet, rather than the other way around. Early Internet was janky but amazing
I see the modern internet as sometime in the early 2010s when YouTube shifted heavily towards monetisation and changing up the UI for that, Facebook started to shift from VC money to monetizing the platform culminating in its post-IPO super monetization. Facebook buying Instagram and then eventually monetizing it heavy with advertisements
Facebook IPO, YouTube profitability push from Google, Instagram profitability push from Facebook. That all came together to birth the modern online influencer. An incredibly fast rapid shift from a short decade of body acceptance and mild movements against over consumption to now 6th graders have skincare routines and therapy shopping seems bigger than it has ever been
I had such high hopes for the internet, I met and spoke with people from all over the world, real life was obsolete so I put all my time into being online because it was so much easier to talk to people and make friends online back then. I made a huge mistake.
I thought I was the only one pondering on this. It’s been a wild ride and I’m so glad I got to take part in the 90s, when web 1.0 was wild and free. What a blast that was.
But it’s over now, we’ve ruined it, like we ruin everything, and I hope soon we’ll all be collectively ready as a species to dance on the grave of our dead internet.
F
For real, people have plenty of reasons to be pissy with AI, but if it has the power to destroy the current internet, there are massive silver linings.
Sadly whatever replaces it will be even worse.
this has nothing to do with ai though
watch this if you can’t read ☞ techlore - The UK Just Broke the Anonymous Internet www.youtube.com/watch?v=QiR7aQs3JTU
Yeah. I can’t stay away completely, but it is unquestionable how much better I am in general when I spend more free time outside versus in front of a screen.
Edit: I don’t mean to make screens sound like the bad guy. It’s more about engaging all of your senses and interacting with 100% of your immediate environment, rather than keeping your vision and mind focused on the 24/7 fire hose of only the 0.001% most potent triple-distilled negativity sourced from the entire fucking planet.
The internet is like having omnipotence but only for the knowledge that messes with our brains. We don’t get to see all the nice shit from across the planet 50x a day.
No. You had tech billionaires before the internet as well.
They just were less tech and less billionaire, but they were there too.
Everytime I hear about some draconian internet law it’s always coming out of the UK.
.
I have a long-running theory that we’re the US’s testing ground for authoritarian nonsense. If they roll it out here and it doesn’t get too much resistance, it’ll show up in the US in the next 3-5 years.
India was the traditional testing ground. If she is no longer that, than US hegemony has definitely weakened.
It’s Foucault’s boomerang, but the last beta before bringing it home.
I could see that being the case, though the US has been testing things in the same vein itself.
.
They’re not done. Making VPNs illegal is next. Another stupid law to make sure people aren’t bypassing the other stupid law.
Wait I don’t understand. Did they cancel https? How about ftp? Ssh?
Or are they requiring some half baked bullshit in a browser to catch the lowest common denominator?
Half-baked bullshit. You can get around it with a VPN or a copy of Death Stranding 2
I haven’t click to submit anything at any point, does it just ask for an image?
I’m fine with looking like him as far as porn is concerned. Probably help me in fact, lol.
Bender-Meme:
*Selfhosters: I build my own Internet With Blackjack and Hookers
You joke but it would be great if we could restart the web. No bots, no corps, you have to be a nerd to get in. Maybe some specific protocol where you need a certain modem to access it, to keep other people out…
Maybe this is what the dark web is? I haven’t dabbled.
Elites abandoning a world they judged unworthy in favor of vendor lock-in sounds pretty dark to me
That’s basically Apple users locking themselves in the garden.
An iPhone can communicate with other devices over open protocols, which is different from the proposed un-reachability and privileged access to the network.
Basically. Look up onion routing (tor protocol).
Right I’ve used that but I dont see how that leads to a different net
Ah, I’m not giving a full picture there. Technically you can use layered encryption like tor uses on the clearnet. Tor additionally exposes tor-only services that route exclusively via tor’s onion routing (not just http wrapped inside an encryption onion).
i2p works differently under the hood, but the shared piece is exclusive services, only accessible through a non-standard protocol. That’s how you’d get a different web. Unless we’re talking physical layer stuff.
I thought about i2p, too. But what do we use it for? Torrents!
Selfhosted hookers, like Gator:
<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/eb0f9f77-bb22-4b23-98c6-a586dc6beb25.jpeg">
this community is dead, the day Canada, U.S. and Eu asks lemmy to “verify” our ages
or we’re all on a vpn connected to a server in ??? Mongolia?
I already use tor to connect to Lemmy.
Tor won’t help if the instance is in U.K. (or soon Canada &c) and responsible for “verifying your age”