"Why is your phone in airplane mode?"
from Charger8232@lemmy.ml to privacy@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:18
https://lemmy.ml/post/42255169

Privacy for me has been incredibly rewarding, but when talking to people who haven’t been introduced to privacy, there are occasionally some moments that make it exhausting. One conversation in particular is one that I’ve had to go through dozens of times, and it always goes along these lines:

Each time it happens, it has a unique flavor. One person accused me of lying and then fraud. I know people are just curious and don’t mean to be rude, but it makes me die a little inside every time someone asks. I’ve begun trying to sidestep the conversation entirely:

or:

People seem to think that a phone automatically comes with a carrier and that it’ll stop working if you don’t have one. In reality, I’m saving hundreds of dollars per year while avoiding spam, fraud, breaches, surveillance, and being chronically online. People have a hard time coping with those who do things a little differently.

#privacy

threaded - newest

DieserTypMatthias@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:28 next collapse

Airalo also exists if your phone supports eSIM.

sodalite@slrpnk.net on 26 Jan 21:29 next collapse

oh wow. mine actually is airplane mode to save battery. TIL.

Hawk5000@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:33 next collapse

Do you use your phone for navigation when driving? Any good app recommendations for navigating without cellular data?

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:35 next collapse

*Cycling, but yes. I use CoMaps.

Batmorous@lemmy.world on 26 Jan 23:59 next collapse

Hopefully they can be overhauling UI to be much better. Would be cool if they made calls to wider community for UI people to come in to help out

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 00:01 next collapse

Ultimate Lemming:

  1. Cycles only, detects cars
  2. Uses CoMaps
  3. Uses Archlinux?

Im just jokin with ya 😉

user224@lemmy.sdf.org on 27 Jan 02:55 next collapse

2 and 3 check out with me, but 1st point is public transport only. Preferably trains + trams.
Although buses have the advantage that I can sit in the front where I can see the road, and they also tend to be less illuminated so I can see outside at night.
I wish there were dark carriages. Coach buses will have a few blue LEDs near the floor, but a train has to come with full sun worth of light.

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 16:20 collapse

My city has no public transport and if you tried to bike from one end to the other youd be killed crossing a 6 lane interstate lol. Not to mention it would take you 10 hours.

Which sucks but I would never use public transport even if we had it. But it does suck for those who cant afford cars.

user224@lemmy.sdf.org on 27 Jan 16:38 collapse

but I would never use public transport even if we had it.

Why is that?

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 17:05 collapse

Its not for me, and im in a place out of town. Public transport wouldnt work here.

pineapple@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 09:05 collapse

Public transport pretty much always works everywhere that isn’t a country town with like 5 people living there, and at that point you could just walk or ride around.

If there is low demand you can start with a small community bus, then increase the amount of buses and lines. Increase the size of the bus. Then maybe build a tram line etc…

I’m not saying your govenment will do this but it is almost always possible and faster, safer and more comfortable. Unless you really enjoy driving or prefer the privacy that it offers (debatable but still somewhat valid) in which case public transport and other viable alternatives to driving is still the only real way to reduce traffic for drivers.

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 28 Jan 16:21 collapse

Ive never found public transport to be good in American cities. Its always loud, smells, and is dangerous. Im sure its better elsewhere.

I do love driving, and I hate large vehicles on the road. But no one around here is ever going to use public transport. (Town of about 300k.).

There are busses, only the homeless and drug addicts use them.

pineapple@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 21:10 collapse

Yeah, my point was that it could be made better eventually it would be safe enough to use.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 05:06 collapse

Uses Archlinux?

secureblue :)

Castor_Troy@hexbear.net on 27 Jan 01:20 collapse

<img alt="sicko-biker" src="https://hexbear.net/pictrs/image/6116b481-108c-4c80-98ba-dffa3ca75b52.png">

hansolo@lemmy.today on 26 Jan 21:40 next collapse

I can second CoMaps. Works great when I’m somewhere and don’t have a local SIM.

digital_digger@lemmy.world on 26 Jan 21:49 next collapse

Herewego works offline.

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 00:02 collapse

Yeah I dont get the comaps hype. It sucks anywhere that’s not a megalopolis. Here wego is far far better (for me).

Lysergid@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 22:14 next collapse

Last time I checked, you can use GPS without carrier. GPS, and GNSS in general, is separate set of satellites. With cellular It’s just more precise since initial triangulation facilitated by cell towers. I recently was mid 5 hours flight and was able to see my location in google maps despite being in flight mode

mrnobody@reddthat.com on 27 Jan 06:07 collapse

Organic maps found on F Droid, download the state or area you want so is available offline. Won’t do traffic obviously, but gets you a to be.

pirat@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 21:54 collapse

I think CoMaps is the better choice.

CoMaps was founded in 2025 by former Organic Maps contributors. The Organic Maps codebase was forked due to concerns about the project’s governance, transparency, and the potential for shareholder profit at the expense of the community. The CoMaps project was created, focusing on privacy, performance and community.

Source

mrnobody@reddthat.com on 28 Jan 03:59 collapse

Oh dang! I didn’t realize! Thanks for bringing that up good sir.

comrade_twisty@feddit.org on 26 Jan 21:34 next collapse

How are you using Signal without a phone number? - asking cause I genuinely would love to do so!

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:34 next collapse

You can sign up using a VoIP number or a burner phone.

jnod4@lemmy.ca on 26 Jan 21:48 next collapse

So then you still need to give them a phone number to get texted on signal?

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:50 collapse

Signal requires a phone number to register, but I can hand out my username without giving them the phone number I registered with.

rollin@piefed.social on 27 Jan 02:19 next collapse

if the number you registered with eventually gets recycled to someone who then uses it for Signal, will that affect your account?

akilou@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 02:37 collapse

If that person registers with Signal then this guy loses his account and username. All new messages sent to his username will get sent to the new person’s phone but the new person won’t have any of the history.

Broken@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 07:19 next collapse

My work around was keeping the phone number but not on my phone so I never lose it like that.

Specifically I ported it to Google voice where its just parked with no monthly cost (there was a 1 time port cost). I’m not logged in to voice ever so the anti-privacy of google doesn’t apply. Any text messages I receive get forwarded to a non google email (but thats few and far between).

I’m sure there are other similar options out there, but I did what I knew and its been fine.

someone@lemmy.today on 27 Jan 17:05 next collapse

I can’t fathom that Signal is not a honeypot.

Back when I tried to register, not only did they want a phone number (which usually links to IRL KYC stuff) but they also wanted me to complete a google captcha that took different metrics (canvas, etc) of my device.

Why is that needed? They say it’s to reduce spam, I just don’t believe it it.

Not only that, I can’t register using a linux system. I simply MUST register with a mobile device (that I will likely have on me) that can potentially track me through the cellular modem in the device and also likely has listening devices inside the device and a camera attached that is very hard to cover (because it’s embedded into the glass and and covering it with anything messes with the swipe up function).

No organization would create something that is so incredibly hostile to people who don’t want mobile phones and don’t want numbers unless they were a honeypot. I even think that Signal was created in a large part to try to siphon popularity away from XMPP before it could reach mass adoption.

akilou@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 18:30 collapse

Signal is not for people who categorically do not want numbers or mobile phones. They’ve never said that.

sqgl@sh.itjust.works on 28 Jan 16:02 collapse

Not if you change this setting. <img alt="" src="https://sh.itjust.works/pictrs/image/0f04f7f4-ff1d-4784-b4f0-5b2810b9d361.png">

gammaray@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 08:03 collapse

You might want to look into Matrix.

It doesn’t require any of that bullshit.

leadore@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 00:05 collapse

So it’s still yes, you do have to have a phone number.

digital_digger@lemmy.world on 26 Jan 21:49 collapse

I think it is not required anymore

LytiaNP@lemmy.today on 26 Jan 21:53 collapse

No, you still need a phone number. IIRC it’s on the roadmap, but not a priority.

someone@lemmy.today on 27 Jan 17:09 collapse

It’s a honeypot, so of course making it so anyone can use it, even without a phone number, even with a mobile device, is not a priority.

IronBird@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 17:20 collapse

if it’s a honeypot, why would you make it easier to use anonymously?

[deleted] on 27 Jan 17:54 collapse

.

juspie@piefed.ca on 26 Jan 21:42 next collapse

Your pain is so very relatable, pal 😢

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:45 collapse

I’ve only met a handful of people that don’t question it and just accept my personal choices. One person even tried stepping in when someone asked for my email to tell them I didn’t have one. I do have email, but the gesture was still nice. Those are the ones worth keeping around.

juspie@piefed.ca on 26 Jan 21:50 collapse

My struggle is to not get bitter/angry at these situations. I have to keep reminding myself that there are about a billion other ways in which I am ignorant of things that are equally important. And that just a few years ago, I too, was completely on the big tech bandwagon (but only reluctantly so).

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:54 collapse

My struggle is to not get bitter/angry at these situations.

That’s why I’m complaining online instead! /s

The best thing you can do is just prepare yourself for situations you might end up in, and practice your responses. When someone asked why I don’t have a carrier, I instinctively said “Privacy reasons” and then immediately realized what was about to come. It takes practice, even if you mess up a couple times.

juspie@piefed.ca on 27 Jan 02:13 collapse

Agreed!

artyom@piefed.social on 26 Jan 21:44 next collapse

I made a website whose entire existence is dedicated to my “profile” (myname.com). So when someone asks for contact info, I send them there. It gives them the opportunity to contact me using their preferred method, as well as being able to easily find it in the future if they lose it or I change it.

It has:

  • phone # (obv could be omitted)
  • email
  • link to Signal
  • link to ArcaneChat
  • link to Matrix
  • link to SimpleX
  • my blog
  • Mastodon
  • Steam
  • Zelle
  • etc.

It’s also the first link that comes up, or one of the first, for most people, if they Google me. I also carry basically a business card, but without the business, with QR code and domain.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 21:47 next collapse

I also carry basically a business card, but without the business, with QR code and domain.

I wanted to do this and only put my contact for my SimpleX Chat, but good business cards are expensive!

artyom@piefed.social on 26 Jan 21:51 next collapse

I got 250 of them from VistaPrint in 2019 for <$50 and still have a bunch left.

E: just checked and they are $18 for 50

XLE@piefed.social on 26 Jan 22:35 collapse

Especially if you’re looking for that perfect shade of white.

grimpy@lemmy.myserv.one on 27 Jan 02:50 next collapse

they’re embossed, aren’t they?

apotheotic@beehaw.org on 27 Jan 11:15 collapse

Let’s see Paul Allen’s website

bonsai@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jan 22:10 collapse

This sounds like a great idea but I do worry about crawlers scraping this gold mine of personal details. Do you put the site behind a password that you include on the business card or something?

artyom@piefed.social on 26 Jan 22:16 collapse

No, I don’t consider any of this to be private or valuable information.

HubertManne@piefed.social on 26 Jan 21:50 next collapse

phone is the new cigarettes for me. I was a long hair but never smoked. People would ask me for a smoke and I would say I don’t smoke and I would usually get a glare. Like I secretly had them on me. Just the other day someone asked if I could call their phone because I lost it and I said I don’t carry my pone when I walk the dog because im so close to home (I do not). Businesses want me to do something with an app and Im like I don’t use a smartphone (I have one for work but since I would not get one for personal reasons as far as im concerned I don’t have one because I don’t want to use it like that. I will use it as a camera but not to scan qr codes).

blueworld@piefed.world on 27 Jan 05:23 collapse

I really like this analogy, but the biggest one to me is the intentionally addictive nature of the media and information it provides. Like the specifically targeted nicotine hits smoking provides designed to be addictive, phones sooth, stimulate, and distract in new and yet similar ways leveraging cognitive biases and physiology. They also fuck up your mind and body in screwing sleep cycles, changing your attention threshold, and probably more. Might not be as bad as cancer, but they still have an impact.

Jabril@hexbear.net on 26 Jan 22:07 next collapse

What about it you need to call a business like a bank, restaurant, etc?

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 22:12 collapse

I don’t. I go in person. If I explicitly have to then I can borrow someone’s phone or use a burner phone, but that’s never happened.

Edit: Another option is phone booths, but those are becoming increasingly less common.

Jabril@hexbear.net on 26 Jan 22:15 collapse

Do you run into issues with 2 factor verification? I’ve noticed many services forcing people to use it and only allowing phone numbers

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 22:17 collapse

Since I avoid using privacy invasive services, the services I do use all have an option for TOTP as a form of 2FA. If I explicitly need 2FA via SMS, I can pay for a VoIP number.

Jabril@hexbear.net on 26 Jan 22:27 next collapse

Thanks for the info. I hadn’t considered this as an option but it does seem pretty viable at this point.

freedickpics@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:16 collapse

I can pay for a VoIP number.

Have you done this recently? My experience is almost no 2FA/verification services will accept a VoIP number anymore

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:18 collapse

Have you done this recently?

I’ve never had the need to, thankfully.

My experience is almost no 2FA/verification services will accept a VoIP number anymore

That’s unfortunate. In those cases, I would either go without 2FA (since it’s the service’s fault for being insecure at that point) or don’t use the service altogether.

SharkAttak@kbin.melroy.org on 26 Jan 22:14 next collapse

People seem to think that a phone automatically comes with a carrier and that it'll stop working if you don't have one.

Not all phones have a carrier, but 99% of them need one if you want to make normal phone calls.

CodenameDarlen@lemmy.world on 26 Jan 22:27 next collapse

The sad truth is: you can’t talk about online privacy with normal people, they just won’t understand, if you try to explain it, they don’t care, simple as that! They’ll ignore anything you say and probably call you paranoid.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 22:30 next collapse

I generally keep my privacy habits to myself, but if someone asks I will tell them. It’s always better to try with a chance of getting them interested than not to try at all.

pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 Jan 03:58 next collapse

I have shared and exposed my close friends to it and they use signal with me

mrnobody@reddthat.com on 27 Jan 05:28 next collapse

Hello, wife?

sqgl@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 06:24 next collapse

If you are an old programmer/geek young people will dismiss you even though they don’t even know what a folder is. They think they are IT experts because they can apply the latest instagram filters to their photos.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 05:03 collapse

even though they don’t even know what a folder is

Someone once tried sharing a file with me by copy pasting the file path as if it were a URL

ragas@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 13:46 next collapse

Jup. I made that conclusion too.

However one time two friends asked me about secure messengers and I reluctantly gave up that I used Signal. Since then everyone in my closer friend circle suddenly had Signal.

autonomoususer@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 10:14 collapse

Totally wrong, skill issue.

BandanaBug@piefed.social on 26 Jan 22:36 next collapse

Privacy but using public WiFi?..

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 22:37 next collapse

My devices distrust any network, and I always use a VPN. It’s obviously not my first choice, but it can still be done safe enough.

lIlIllIlIIIllIlIlII@lemmy.zip on 27 Jan 00:12 collapse

If the wifi has firewall blocking non web ports, do you have a solution for those cases?

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:17 collapse

Mullvad VPN and others have “obfuscation” methods to mask your traffic as regular web traffic. If those don’t work, I can always connect to a proxy or Tor as a plan B, or see if any other Wi-Fi networks are available. I’ve never had this be an issue, but there are certainly options available.

pineapple@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 08:56 collapse

I don’t have mullvadvpn but I use a different vpn that has obfuscation and I have tried every single setting within it but somehow some networks can still detect the vpn no matter what I try. I am not sure how they can do this.

freedickpics@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:14 collapse

The threat of public wifi isn’t as big of a deal as it used to be. Before widespread VPNs and when internet traffic was unencrypted, anything you transmitted could be read by someone else on the network. But nowadays all an eavesdropper would see is what websites you’re connecting to (without a VPN) or the VPN if you are using one. Happy to be corrected if I’m mistaken though

cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 26 Jan 23:18 next collapse

Weird take, I have two phones and only one has service. The iPhone. My Android phone is older, and it works just fine over WiFi. I’ve disabled cellular in settings. So it’s now functionally a tablet. And before you ask if I have the phone app on my dock, I don’t have a dock. It’s actually being used as an Animal Crossing cosplay prop. It has a NookPhone case, and while it does have a different wallpaper, the apps have Animal Crossing themed icons. So NookMusic is Apple Music, Messaging is Telegram, Passport is my Animal Crossing item/collectible tracking app (which also has links to my island/character), stuff like that. But I mean, you can swipe up and get the app drawer, and see all the apps installed. It even uses the iPhone gesture controls (Samsung offers this natively in the settings), because the NookPhone doesn’t have the Back/Home/Task buttons.

When it’s on, if it can’t find my home WiFi, it hops on my iPhone’s hotspot feature. It has signal most places. (And while it doesn’t have Signal installed, AFAIK, my iPhone does.)

iamthetot@piefed.ca on 26 Jan 23:24 next collapse

I would not be comfortable not having mobile signal. Public WiFi is not going to cut it. Even a 0.00001% chance that I’d miss an important call from my partner is no bueno for me.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 23:34 next collapse

You can still purchase an external cellular hotspot, which will be more private than a phone carrier.

pineapple@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:30 next collapse

Would using an old phone as an external cellular hotspot be almost just as private as using an application specific device?

I just looked at the video and wondered that since there kinda expensive (also I wouldn’t be able to use the calyx hotspots since I don’t live in the US)

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:44 collapse

There’s a bigger security risk because of a larger attack surface, and naturally phones can collect a lot more data than hotspots, but it depends on your threat model.

pineapple@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 11:02 collapse

I guess it could be a decent consideration if I can find a way to anonymously get a sim, not really much point otherwise.

mrnobody@reddthat.com on 27 Jan 06:02 collapse

Woo hoo! Something new to be paranoid about!

jve@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 06:01 next collapse

Even a 0.00001% chance that I’d miss an important call from my partner is no bueno for me.

Yikes. I can’t imagine having this level of anxiety about being out of contact.

iamthetot@piefed.ca on 27 Jan 06:19 collapse

I wouldn’t say it’s an anxiety, I’d say it’s a cost-benefit analysis I’ve done and decided that having cell service to catch a potential emergency call is more important to me than that one extra level of privacy like OP. Hell, I don’t want to miss a call even if it isn’t an emergency. I love my partner and want to talk to them any chance I can get; if they’re calling I want to answer.

jve@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 07:02 collapse

I’m happy for you.

I think you dramatically overestimate both the cost of missing a call, and the benefit of not missing a call.

That said, it sure is convenient.

iamthetot@piefed.ca on 27 Jan 14:45 next collapse

I think you drastically underestimate how much I love my partner.

jve@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 16:42 collapse

No doubt.

I’m sure you’ve got multiple backup carriers and a satellite phone with you at all times to ensure that 99.99999 uptime, which translates to about 4 seconds of downtime a year.

But surely you weren’t exaggerating that part too.

iamthetot@piefed.ca on 27 Jan 19:06 collapse

Of course the %age I used was an exaggeration. Sorry, was this conversation being driven by the assumption that it wasn’t? I exaggerated to make my point.

jve@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 20:37 collapse

And yet you decided to continue this thread by saying that you weren’t exaggerating.

iamthetot@piefed.ca on 27 Jan 20:51 collapse

And yet you decided to continue this thread by saying that you weren’t exaggerating.

In fact, I never said that.

jve@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 20:54 collapse

I think you drastically underestimate how much I love my partner.

This was your response to me saying you were exaggerating.

What did you mean by this?

Apologies for assuming you said it because you were refuting my comment.

iamthetot@piefed.ca on 27 Jan 21:03 collapse

What did you mean by this?

That I love my partner very much.

jve@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 22:06 collapse

That’s great and was very much inferred already.

Just glad we can all agree that you dramatically exaggerated when you said you needed 7 9s of availability.

iamthetot@piefed.ca on 27 Jan 22:46 collapse

Yes, I established that was an exaggeration for effect. 👍

jve@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 07:17 collapse

You sure did.

Proud of you, bud.

chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz on 27 Jan 14:55 collapse

I think you dramatically don’t understand how different other people are compared to you. Either that, or you lack empathy. I can’t think of any other reasons why you would distrust and dismiss their reasoning.

jve@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 16:45 collapse

Hot takes here chunkystyles.

You really got me thinking about how some people just love each other so much that they would move mountains to make sure they don’t miss a single text message, and that’s completely normal, and not at all anxious behavior.

That missed text message or call could be the one where they call for help and you don’t get it and oh god what if I could have helped and oh god what if I didn’t get a chance to say goodbye?

Sure hope this person never drives or rides a bike anywhere. Probably fine if they do text and drive though. Because of the love.

chunkystyles@sopuli.xyz on 27 Jan 18:11 collapse

You’re just driving my point home.

There’s really no reason for you to act like this. This kind of snark doesn’t endear you to anyone and it doesn’t help good faith conversion.

jve@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 20:47 collapse

You’re just driving my point home.

Oh no.

there’s no reason for you to act like this.

Act like what?

Offering opinions in a public forum in support of the OP? Contradicting somebody making a silly claim that they can’t bear to be apart from their partner for 4 seconds a year?

Defensive when somebody tells me that I lack empathy?

Snarky at somebody chiming in to insult my thought processes with no basis for their claims?

pineapple@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 09:10 collapse

I could probably have my phone on airplane mode all the time and no one would notice, I never pick up anyones calls to begin with.

arin@lemmy.world on 26 Jan 23:35 next collapse

How do you use signal without a phone number? I last time i installed, i couldn’t use it without a phone number. I tried virtual numbers and couldn’t get an account for signal

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 26 Jan 23:41 collapse

VoIP numbers should work, but if they don’t you can instead use a burner phone. There’s no way to register without a phone number yet.

Batmorous@lemmy.world on 26 Jan 23:56 collapse

How much further away before we get signing up without phone number?

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:08 collapse

I can’t say. It’s on their roadmap, but there’s no official announcements yet.

4am@lemmy.zip on 26 Jan 23:46 next collapse

Just keep in mind that the purpose of Airplane Mode is to prevent transmission. Your phone might still be receiving signals like GPS and WiFi SSIDs, which it can record to be transmitted later.

If you really don’t want to be tracked, leave it home.

ragas@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 13:43 next collapse

Or own your device with a custom rom.

pineapple@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 08:52 collapse

At least by turning on airplane mode they cannot track your location.

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 26 Jan 23:52 next collapse

Wait, you need a phone # for signal…i thought.

Also, this method only works for people in massive cities (1mil+). Less than that good luck getting wifi. That is too much of a massive convenience for little gain, if they want to find you, they will. They’ll just tap into your family or your neighbors phone.

Say you get lost or run out of gas. Gonna a call 911 every time that happens? What if youre on the way to a friend’s house and they call and tell you they have to cancel or they need you to pick up something for them?

Yes, I lived before cell phones were a thing. But I cant imagine many people would put up with you. At least get a damn Jitterbug!

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:14 next collapse

Wait, you need a phone # for signal…i thought.

You do. You can sign up with a VoIP number or a burner phone.

Also, this method only works for people in massive cities (1mil+). Less than that good luck getting wifi.

I don’t need to stay constantly connected. Even when Wi-Fi is available, I rarely have the need to use it.

That is too much of a massive convenience for little gain, if they want to find you, they will.

People have different threat models, so it’s not for everyone, but it’s certainly worth it for me.

They’ll just tap into your family or your neighbors phone.

And find what? Encrypted Signal messages?

Say you get lost or run out of gas.

GPS works without cellular, and I cycle instead of driving.

Gonna a call 911 every time that happens?

I can borrow someone else’s phone or keep an emergency phone switched off until it’s needed.

What if youre on the way to a friend’s house and they call and tell you they have to cancel or they need you to pick up something for them?

Stuff happens. If I really need to stay connected, I can use an external hotspot.

Yes, I lived before cell phones were a thing. But I cant imagine many people would put up with you.

If it’s that big of a deal that someone won’t associate with me, that is entirely their problem. It’s rarely ever an inconvenience for them.

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 00:19 collapse

So everyone you interact with uses signal, and no other Google apps, they all have rooted phones and no smart tvs etc? You avoid all traffic cameras and ring doorbells/other people’s phone cameras/microphones?

I find this hard to believe, or you are a real life 007!

Also im not being an ass if it sounded like it, im genuinely intrigued by this. I would be a hermit if I lived like that.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:22 collapse

So everyone you interact with uses signal, and no other Google apps, they all have rooted phones and no smart tvs etc? You avoid all traffic cameras and ring doorbells/other people’s phone cameras/microphones?

Privacy is not about absolutism. You do what you can within your threat model to stay protected.

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 00:26 collapse

Sure I get that. But youre going to a lot of trouble to not actually be very secure in the grand scheme. At most, you are making the advertisers .0000001 cent less per year vs if you used big tech junk. Unless youre convincing 10,000 others to step back into 1991, its not making a difference. (Im all for that if you have the time machine btw!)

Hey man if you got time and energy for it, keep on it! I truly like interacting with such different people on here, its awesome.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:42 collapse

At most, you are making the advertisers .0000001 cent less per year vs if you used big tech junk. Unless youre convincing 10,000 others to step back into 1991, its not making a difference.

It actually makes a much bigger difference than you think. I remember a site that showed how much advertisers made off of you while you’ve been viewing, but I can’t seem to find it. They make dollars off of you every second. Ad blocking alone has made so much of a difference that YouTube has tried intentionally slowing down their service to ad block users as a way to discourage it. I have no better way to show you how big of an impact it actually makes. Even in your own life, using a password manager can save yourself from getting hacked. This thread isn’t really for fighting about why privacy is important, but there’s plenty of other sources talking about it.

P.S. Try 400,000 and counting

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 00:47 collapse

I can see that i guess. I wont use the internet without ad blockers.

Good guides, ive read a few of those. The journey is slow! But I figure as long as I have a Samsung android phone, im screwed privacy wise even if all my pcs run linux. So its either live with a neutered linux phone or this. Maybe the lightphone would work but it would have to actually work with all the banking, airplane, and hotel apps that are all proprietary and usually require Google play store. They got us pinned down man. Unless you live in a cave and never venture out.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:50 collapse

So its either live with a neutered linux phone or this. Maybe the lightphone would work but it would have to actually work with all the banking, airplane, and hotel apps that are all proprietary and usually require Google play store.

GrapheneOS is a hardened version of Android that removes the privacy invasive elements. You can still optionally install Google Play Services if you need to install apps from there, but it runs in a sandboxed environment so it doesn’t have the same invasive permissions.

mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca on 27 Jan 03:26 collapse

I think you’re a bit too stuck in the “immediate access to everyone” way of things

if I get lost, having cell service won’t help me, because I have GPS on my phone that can show me where to go. and if I’m lost in the backcountry… I already don’t have cell service lol

if my car breaks down, I’ll wait until somebody comes along and ask for help

if I’m on my way somewhere and somebody wants me to cancel, then I’ll get the message when I stop for a coffee or I’ll show up and then go home. if they want me to pick something up last minute… it doesn’t get picked up on my way over. not a big deal.

I have cell service. have for years. but the more time goes on, the less I find it necessary. and the more anecdotal evidence I have to support that.

important note: I do not have children or family members in vulnerable condition

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 16:17 collapse

I dont care about that so much, but I dont live in a place where wifi is everywhere (and at a lot of places you have to pay to use it or buy something)

I just feel like people who live this way must lead a more solitary life. Which is fine. But it doesnt work for me. Those who travel and /or travel for work couldn’t do that without the current tech, its just whats expected unfortunately.

Also, you’ve never driven anywhere remote if you think your car breaks down and people will come help. Ever been in the eastern part of Montana? Didn’t think so. Youll be waiting for 5 hours before you see a car, if you dont get hauled into a meth lab by thay time.

mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca on 27 Jan 22:19 collapse

so I get a temporary phone if I’m expected to be in a higher risk environment… not really a big deal

I’m not frequently in that situation, so that is an exceptional circumstance. if I break down on the way to Algonquin Park or on the north end, there’s enough traffic that I won’t die from it.

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 28 Jan 00:45 collapse

A life where I have to consider buying burner phones when im going to travel definitely doesnt fit my lifestyle, and im on lemmy! You are one in a trillion human.

mrgoosmoos@lemmy.ca on 28 Jan 14:40 collapse

I’m really not.

leadore@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 00:05 next collapse

I thought you had to have a phone number to use Signal.

marcie@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:27 next collapse

Could have a voip phone number

leadore@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 00:34 collapse

I don’t know how to get one and shouldn’t have to, just to use an app like Signal. Why isn’t there one we can use without having to give them a phone #?

MissingGhost@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 00:37 next collapse

Just use matrix or xmpp. Signal is centralized. If they stop offering the service it’s gone forever.

leadore@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 00:52 next collapse

That seems like a better idea, but it 's the same old problem where you’d have to get the people you want to communicate with to switch from Signal to that.

WoodScientist@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 02:12 collapse

There’s always a compromise between security and accessibility. Signal is nice in that it’s pretty secure while also being acceptable. More secure options aren’t very accessible to the average person.

haagch@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 13:08 collapse

Signal does not care about anyone who does not use android or ios and offers no official way to create an account without them. I wouldn’t call that accessible.

WoodScientist@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 00:23 collapse

“Universally accessible” is not a synonym for “accessible.”

sqgl@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 06:28 collapse

SimpleX uses the Signal engine but requires no phone number. Also can awt up your own server (unlike Signal).

leadore@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 06:50 collapse

A search for that term brings up about 10 different things from crypto to herpes, nothing about a messaging app

sqgl@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 07:18 collapse

Search for it in the Google play store.

simplex.chat/…/20250729-simplex-chat-v6-4-1-welco…

www.reddit.com/r/SimpleXChat/

leadore@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 19:00 collapse

Thanks! They also have a desktop and a terminal version, nice.

sqgl@sh.itjust.works on 28 Jan 01:59 collapse

Last I checked (over a year ago) desktop was not great. IIRC there was no scroll bar.

Also getting noobs to join is tricky. You cannot use your native camera app to accept an invite (has to be via the SimpleX app) and it screws up invites via Facebook messenger (gets confused by the tracking suffix Facebook appends).

leadore@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 04:45 collapse

Well I would be one of those noobs, not having used signal or the like before. :) Camera app–are invites done via a QR code then? And we don’t use FB or any of that poison. I doubt I can get anyone to try it out anyway, but good to know about it just in case. Use case would be either an old no-sim phone or android tablet connecting to wifi or wifi hotspot, and/or a laptop/desktop from home.

sqgl@sh.itjust.works on 28 Jan 05:15 collapse

Invites by either QR or URL. You will be fine. Anyone who figures out how to join the Fediverse will figure out SimpleX too.

ragas@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 13:48 collapse

No. Not any more.

Edit: Sorry apparently you still need a number for the registration.

termaxima@slrpnk.net on 27 Jan 00:59 next collapse

I considered this option, but public WiFi is not ubiquitous enough here (in France) for my usage, and I believe a SIM card is absolutely required even for emergency services, which is what ultimately turned me off the idea.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 01:02 next collapse

in France

My heart goes out to privacy enthusiasts in France. You guys are really going through it right now.

sqgl@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 06:26 next collapse

And isn’t public WiFi more of a security issue than having your own carrier?

Ferk@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 13:22 collapse

SIM card is absolutely required even for emergency services

For anyone wondering: while technically the cell towers might be able to accept emergency calls even without network authentication (which is what’s the SIM is for), there are countries/places that will still require an active SIM with the excuse of wanting to prevent hoax calls.

eru@mouse.chitanda.moe on 27 Jan 01:47 next collapse

you can use services like jmp.chat to get a reliable number anonymously for verifying anything that requires one

adespoton@lemmy.ca on 27 Jan 06:00 next collapse

I’ve never had someone ask me for my phone number. They usually ask me to text them, at which point they have my (throw away) number.

Everyone is totally unaware when I’m de-carriered.

[deleted] on 27 Jan 06:26 next collapse

.

adespoton@lemmy.ca on 27 Jan 06:33 next collapse

Something I’ve been investigating is setting up a meshtastic node at home with the expansion board. This gives me a 15-20km range for basic signal, which is more than enough for most stuff I want to do, and I can connect to other nodes in the area when needed.

I’d still need to add a temporary eSIM when traveling sometimes, but that can be a temporary thing.

themeatbridge@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 07:11 next collapse

I did something similar with an old spare phone for a while when my actual phone screen stopped working. I carried both around, but I found 90% of my use cases didn’t involve phone calls or even texting.

I do find it convenient to have my phone connected to tailscale so I can access my home network from anywhere.

And I don’t necessarily trust public wifi.

But otherwise, I fully support this and think it’s entirely viable for most people.

ragas@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 13:41 collapse

Setup a VPN to your home router and use that when you are on a public wifi. That way all your traffic is fully encypted through the public wifi.

bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works on 28 Jan 02:36 collapse

Woah thats fricken cool

Tenderizer78@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 09:03 next collapse

If you explain yourself, people take that as meaning it’s up for debate. Better to say “I like it that way”.

I considered swapping to a flip-phone but stopped because I need to be able to access my banking app when near ATM’s. My card only ever has the bare minimum amount of money on it so that theft isn’t a concern.

mnemonicmonkeys@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 18:05 collapse

If you explain yourself, people take that as meaning it’s up for debate.

Whenever you run into those people, I think it’s best to just tell them to fuck off. Maybe word it a bit more diplomatically, but still get the meaning across that it’s not a debate

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 04:54 collapse

It’s essentially cognitive dissonance. People are introduced to a life so different from their own that they attack it like an overactive immune system. They see it like a problem that needs fixed, rather than a lifestyle to learn about. It doesn’t help with how much people are conditioned to criminalize privacy, either.

chunes@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 09:30 next collapse

Try not having a phone at all. Those conversations are fun

ragas@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 13:33 collapse

How are you even alive?!

Edit:

<img alt="" src="https://lemmy.ml/pictrs/image/b569efcf-f4e8-4ce8-9bfb-3857eeb6ec30.jpeg">

FreddiesLantern@leminal.space on 27 Jan 10:57 next collapse

I’m someone who likes to walk the path less traveled in general. And in general I’ve found that people don’t respond well to such things. Especially when you explain them in dept. “Oh they choose to be different huh? => let’s ridicule them to cover up our own insecurities”

I’ve learned through trial, error and ridicule that people need to earn the right to an explanation to these matters.

I’m not gonna explain to Joe Shmoe that I use Linux because I’m doing my part in not giving the uprise in fascism the steady flow of data they want to increase their influence over the world.

They’d never understand. They gotta earn that by proving they care about the topic.

ragas@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 13:32 collapse

Yeah something like “Nun of yer business.” works well.

Never explain yourself to people who don’t want to hear the explanation.

For nicer people something like “Its probably boring to you.” can work well. If they insist they can’t complain. :D

eleitl@lemmy.zip on 27 Jan 13:49 next collapse

My GrapheneOS phone is in airplane mode with cellular disabled and WiFi on.

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 14:16 next collapse

So… I’m kind of in the same situation but mine is actually by mistake. Namely my SIM somehow (OK maybe I tinkered with eSIM a bit much… anyway) works for data and SMS but not for calls. I tried to fix it a bit… then honestly I like it without. Most of the calls I received are not important, nor urgent, and the few that are can leave a message or an SMS.

I stopped relying on my phone for calls entirely and I like it.

When I tell people it doesn’t work they just shrug it off and always find a way to contact me without making a big deal out of it.

I still like having a SIM though if only to

  • check where I am on a path the first time I get there
  • know if the person I’m meeting might be late
  • warn if I’m late on the way to somewhere

but typically my phone works well entirely offline (e.g. I do not stream music, I have actual files on my phone) so I understand.

Honestly in your shoes I’d gauge the person, if they are potentially interesting enough to explore the topic with curiosity, I’d be honest. If I just want to move on because they seem obtuse I’d keep it to the minimum.

user224@lemmy.sdf.org on 27 Jan 16:57 collapse

I achieve the same by disabling VoLTE and VoWiFi and setting the phone to LTE only in *#*#4636#*#*.

I love these service menus. *#*#3646633#*#* has so much stuff to permanently screw up on some MediaTeks. But also some useful ones like selection of frequency bands, or even specific frequency and cell id.
But yeah, some settings can persist factory reset, and some may even be illegal like Tx tests (verified that it does transmit garbage on selected frequency with SDR) or IMEI change. Not all settings are on all devices, and they may even be partially broken.

But yeah, these settings are don’t touch it for the most part (some are just huge lists of undocumented variables). Some don’t even seem to be resettable from the menu, I mean menus where you select one option, but by default they are unset. And the band mode selection on Moto G54 5G was… interesting. Rather than a nice selection menu, you can type in a number and select to add or remove it from a vector variable for 4G and 5G. Of course, nowhere does it list valid options or give a reset button.

And lastly a thing that serves me as a warning for future, when I was playing around with a leaked service program for some Realtek Ethernet adapter, I found out what eFuse memory is. There is no going back.

utopiah@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 17:02 next collapse

If you didn’t yet might want to play with Precursor

HexaBack@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 27 Jan 23:57 collapse

that first number singlehandedly helped me fix my mom’s phone. for context, 5g reception is quite mediocre where i live (especially if you’re on att, which my mom thankfully isn’t on). i went to network settings: no band toggle. i opened android’s advanced network settings menu: tried to gaslight me that this phone doesn’t have 4g (i know damn well it does). finally, that first number in your comment that opens HiddenMenu, showed an entry called “NR debug” or something like that. and there it was: “Disable NR”. her phone is so much faster now, but idk how long that will persist since some phones change this shit behind your back after like a week.

rant

to all the carriers and phone manufacturers: JUST GIVES US THE BUTTONS AND KNOBS. WE KNOW WHAT WE ARE DOING AND FORCING US ON YOUR INFERIOR NETWORK IS NOT GOING TO CONVINCE US IT’S BETTER. 5G/NR IS JUST FUNDAMENTALLY A BAD IDEA TO USE FOR CELLULAR TELEPHONY. i miss the days of lte for internet, gsm/cdma for calls, like it was in 2019 and earlier. modern phones and vintage phones worked alike, and volte was merely an optional enhancement.

user224@lemmy.sdf.org on 28 Jan 02:27 collapse

5G is fine when comparing with 4G. Just a step up. My issue with them is rather whatever is going on with VoLTE and VoNR. 2G/3G just worked for phone calls, but now you only get that guaranteed by purchasing a phone directly from the carrier. Hell, some carriers even blacklist or whitelist devices just because.
And in Australia phones are now getting blocked completely, even if they worked with VoLTE because the carrier decided they didn’t.. Hugh Jeffrey also made a video about that.

MarriedCavelady50@lemmy.ml on 27 Jan 15:33 next collapse

This is the scene from Parks and Rec where Ron Swanson has to eventually concede to getting a flip phone.

Clairvoidance@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 27 Jan 21:01 next collapse

hundreds of dollars per year? That’s how much a carrier is over there??

clay_pidgin@sh.itjust.works on 27 Jan 21:17 next collapse

I’m on a popular discount carrier, and it’s ~$30/month. One of the big three carriers will easily charge $100/month.

janewaydidnothingwrong@lemmy.world on 27 Jan 21:40 collapse

Most people will try to find a family plan that lowers the cost per user but it comes with big caveats like long-ish term contracts and some nasty fine-print. And if your carrier gets bought out, which is happening a lot, you never know what changes might get force fed to you

axus@lemmy.ca on 27 Jan 22:59 next collapse

I’m paying over $100 per month for 3 lines. 4th line is $6 a month from Tello

Humorless4483@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 00:50 collapse

How much data do you have at that price ? I’m paying 19€/month for 4 lines, 3 at 5€/month with 30Gb and one at 4€/month for 25Gb

Taldan@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 04:13 collapse

Damn that’s cheap. I pay $50/month per person, for unlimited

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 04:47 collapse

That’s how much a carrier is over there??

Yes. The “poverty” option is $15/month, but plans can easily go up to $100 or more per month. Out of curiosity, how much are they charging across the pond?

gerryflap@feddit.nl on 28 Jan 09:21 next collapse

Damn what the hell. I’m Dutch and I pay less than €12 euros. For that I get 100 call minutes/messages and 6 GB. Neither of which I ever really get close to. Calling is mostly just in case of emergency or when we need to align something right now. And data is always useful because I definitely do not have free wifi anywhere. Do you never leave a big city or something? If I slip with my bike on an icy road and break something in the middle of nowhere it’s kinda good to have some way of communicating.

Clairvoidance@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 28 Jan 16:30 collapse

Yeah as a Dane, (different from dutch above) mobile’s usually between €8-15, we do have plans that go higher, but 4G 30GB per month I figure is pretty survivable unless it’s your only net (mine’s 10GB :P)

Sunsofold@lemmings.world on 27 Jan 22:11 next collapse

Public wi-fi is definitely not everywhere, but yeah, either you take joy in sharing the knowledge you have or you end up being a bit rude to prevent being asked.

Taldan@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 04:12 collapse

That’s going to be highly dependent on where you live. In Tokyo I easily got around without service for years since there was wifi at every train station and convenience store

Sunsofold@lemmings.world on 28 Jan 21:21 collapse

Not to be overly pedantic on the internet but something’s availability being ‘dependent on where’ is definitionally ‘not everywhere.’

spicehoarder@lemmy.zip on 28 Jan 02:44 next collapse

Public WiFi and privacy in the same sentence? lolololol! You use McAfee too?

Taldan@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 04:11 next collapse

It’s not 2005 any more. Public wifi can easily be used securely these days

spicehoarder@lemmy.zip on 28 Jan 05:01 collapse

Whatever lets you sleep at night.

Sal@mander.xyz on 28 Jan 07:39 collapse

I’m curious about an example that comes to your mind as you say this. In your view, what is a privacy risk associated with public WiFi use that is not easily mitigated?

spicehoarder@lemmy.zip on 30 Jan 01:07 collapse

SSL stripping, DNS spoofing, captive portal attacks, leaky metadata attacks (which can and have been reported to happen with popular VPNs)

Lest we forget more and more companies are firing their senior devs and replacing them with college grad vibe-coders? Leading to an uptick in exploits and botched code.

Probably the biggest vulnerability is the captive portal. There is no way to verify you’re connecting to an official Starbucks router.

And of course there’s the zero days we don’t even know about.

What if your system has an unpatched vulnerability? You postponed that Windows update, or your Linux kernel is behind on patches, or even your firmware is vulnerable. Maybe you forgot to install the firmware update, or maybe your hardware vendor doesn’t support your specific NIC anymore. A compromised router could exploit network-facing bugs to attack you directly.

I personally wouldn’t connect to a public router if you held a gun to my head.

pineapple@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 08:47 collapse

Using public wifi with no protections is already pretty secure since most things are encrypted now days. Using a trusted vpn to encrypt all of your traffic makes it almost perfect, since no people in the same network as you can have the faintest clue as to what your doing.

edit: It’s probably not almost perfect but definetly far better than using mobile data.

brucethemoose@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 05:08 next collapse

Playing devil’s advocate, I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone, in case family dies or something and they don’t have access to the right app. That’s reasonable for close family to get upset about.

But you also don’t have to give that number out, heh.

I guess you could use Google Voice too, but that’s a bit… counterproductive unless you can sandbox the app.

Charger8232@lemmy.ml on 28 Jan 05:17 collapse

I think it’s reasonable to have a load-up-minutes dumb phone

Those are becoming harder and harder to find. It’s hard to even find prepaid SIM cards. You now have to buy a voucher, create an account, and add it there, which activates the phone for the number of months the voucher is worth.

hector@lemmy.today on 28 Jan 08:34 next collapse

I almost downloaded a phone thingy online to use for these silicon valley parasites, and like amazon, but on the security warnings I backed off.

What is the best way to securely get a phone number to use and keep, for free, online? Can one do that with signal? I thought you needed a working phone number for that?

MidsizedSedan@lemmy.world on 28 Jan 08:37 collapse

Technology can be adapted to everyone’s unique workflow.

Yours is a highly specialised one, that apparently works for you. Something i may try for a day or two, but am confident can never adapt to my work flow. (Only know 2 “free” WiFi spots in my town. One wants an account. The other wants a phone number)