from Charger8232@lemmy.ml to privacy@lemmy.ml on 22 Nov 21:50
https://lemmy.ml/post/39345295
I wanted to share an interesting statistic with you. Approximately 1 out of every 25 people with a Google Pixel phone is running GrapheneOS right now. While it’s difficult to get an exact number, we can make educated guesses to get an approximate number.
How many GrapheneOS users are there? According to an estimate released by GrapheneOS today, the number of GrapheneOS devices is approaching 400,000. This estimate is based on the number of devices that downloaded recent GrapheneOS updates. Some users may have multiple devices, such as organizations, and some users may download and flash updates externally, but it’s the best estimate we have.
How many Google Pixel users are there? Despite Google’s extensive data collection, this one is surprisingly harder to estimate, since Google hasn’t released an exact number. There’s a number floating around that Google has 4-5% of the smartphone market, which is between 10 million and 13.2 million users in the United States. I can’t find the source of where this information came from. That number is problematic, too, because Japan supposedly uses more Google Pixel phones than the United States. The Pixel 9 series was also a big jump in market share for Google. I couldn’t find any numbers smaller than 10 million, and it made the math nice, so that is what I went with.
Putting the numbers together, it means that 4% of Google Pixel users are running GrapheneOS. That means in a room of 25 Google Pixel users, 1 of them will be a GrapheneOS user. If you include all custom Android operating systems, that number would certainly be much, much higher.
To put it into perspective, each pixel in this image represents ~5 Google Pixel users. Each white pixel represents that those ~5 people use GrapheneOS:
Even with generous estimates to Google’s market share, GrapheneOS still makes up a large portion of their users.
threaded - newest
Hello fellow criminals, anyone get up to any good crime lately?
Nice try FBI
LTT beat you to the joke.
Maybe This Phone ISN’T Just for Criminals - Trying Graphene OS for a Month.
Who cares about toxic LTT?
LTT did not make that joke though? He also copied it.
That is in fact the reference
🏴☠️
Crimes are free and you can just do them as much as you want.
The government doesn’t want you to know this.
I didn’t do the legally mandated number of "Hail Corporate!"s yesterday.
Do you want to just do the minimum?
Just doing my best to avoid surveillance capitalism and government surveillance. Is that illegal yet?
c/dataisbeautiful :P
I had no idea the share was so large.
!dataisbeautiful@lemmy.world
Can I install it on a pixel that bricked during an upgrade?
Depends on if it’s a soft brick or a hard brick. Does it bootloop? Or just not turn on at all? Can you get into recovery?
I can’t remember. I’ll have to dig it out. I was extremely pissed off I had to buy this phone after 2 years and Google wanted an egregious amount to look at it.
cool. that’s actually way more than i expected.
the fact so many people distrust phones gives me some unironic faith for humanity, this also explains why they are trying so hard to kill custom roms.
Yeah 4% is big enough to get on Google’s radar as a threat. Especially if it’s trending upwards.
This is more than just a few tinfoil hats now.
And yes they’re working on locking bootloaders and also making AOSP less useful
1 in 25 is a very odd way to say 4%…
If you actually read the source, you’d know it’s closer to 2 in 50.
Come on now, it’s actually 0,333… in 8,333…
4% is a very odd way of saying 1 in 25
1 in 4% is a very odd way of saying 25
4% of 25 is a very odd way of saying 1
It’s not, it’s easier to visualise one person out of a group of 25 than it is 4 out of a group of 100.
Said 0.1% of people
I never would have guessed anywhere near 400k, that’s wild!
I’m surprised it isn’t more.
Pixels are the reference platform for a lot of open-source phone operating systems. A disproportionate number of people who purchased Pixels are the type of person who did believe Googles motto of “Don’t be Evil”, even after Google abandoned the motto.
Now that Google is inarguably Evil (not Musk Evil, but definitely more Evil than Apple), these people are searching for solutions. They are gun-shy and are not likely to get an Evil iPhone, have a large investment in the Android ecosystem so are unlikely to pivot to Linux Phone, and the niche Android variants are more likely to be assassinated by Google.
GrapheneOS is the obvious choice. I’m surprised it isn’t a higher percentage.
I’m sure it’s a mix, but I would expect fewer people that have GrapheneOS because they have a Pixel than have a Pixel because they are the only devices supported by GrapheneOS.
That is exactly right. But the demographic of Pixel owners likely to install GrapheneOS (or Sailfish or Ubuntu Touch or whatever) and the demographic of GrapheneOS users likely to buy a Pixel probably has a fair overlap.
Considering that they sell Pixels at normal stores, unlike the Nexus devices that came before them. It shouldn’t be any wonder that there’s a lot of normal people using them. Especially when only google was offering long software support for Android phones.
Long-term support is never something that Normies (that don’t want iPhones) contemplate. They would rather buy the cheapest phone; they don’t see the value in a software vendor supported phone. That is why Samsung is more of a household name than Pixel.
Google have also shown that their long-term support is pointless when they pivot and implement their own version of Apples “walled garden” on the Play Store and the Android ecosystem.
Their implied guarantee of openness is just as facetious as Apples implied guarantee of privacy.
I wonder how accurate it is. I have run Graphene off and on over the years but keep going back to stock.
What makes you go back to stock?
I mean, I still buy (used) Pixels even after knowing Google is evil, because they’re still the least-bad option because of things like Graphene OS.
Also, re: “unlikely to pivot to Linux phones:” that’s not because of any sort of “large investment in Android;” it’s because Linux phones either suck or are expensive (or maybe both). I say that as a desktop Linux user exclusively for almost a decade and owner of a Pinephone. I want to be using a Linux phone, but they just aren’t there yet.
hmmm, I’d consider Apple and Google to be roughly equal in terms of general overall evilness these days
they both donate to support fascism and genocide, remove anti-fascism apps and anti-surveillance apps from their stores upon government request (even when not legally required), spy on their users, etc
and their software/products seems to be in the final phase of enshittification
the fact that GrapheneOS exists and works on Google hardware at all seems like a plus in Google’s column, however it’s only necessary because default Android/Chrome are not allowed to go so far as to protect users from surveillance capitalism (so it’s a plus only necessary because of a negative)
unless there’s a specific measure where Google does significantly worse?
I do agree that they are very close; maybe I’m an Apple apologist, but I put ICEBlocker in the same class as Tea. They both claimed to be to protect their target audience; Tea was exposed as having been Vibe Coded by someone who knew SFA about user data security and ICEBlocker had a huge honeypot of user data that the government would love to subpoena.
The reason I got GrapheneOS over other alternatives to Android was because I thought it had something like 1% of the overall smartphone market (source: wikipedia).
Is there a theydidthemath lemmy community lol I’d like to be one of those reddit posters who link communities because funny lol
And remember that some of those black areas are other oses and not just only normal pixel phones, what a win for alt OSs
What is normal?
Hi, Google Pixel user here, wtf is GrapheneOS? And why should I get it?
Pixels are dirt cheap because Google is harvesting massive amounts of data from Pixel users, so they give them away.
GrapheneOS lets you have a cheap Pixel without Google knowing everything about you, and those near you.
Give them away? Not really, Samsung S series are the same pricing as pixels here where I live. The pixel a is different of course, it’s more like a Samsung FE.
Pixels cost around the same as any other phone from Samsung, Oneplus, or whatever.
Maybe if you’re buying them outright?
Where I am, you can get them (with a contract obviously) for 0 dollars up front and like 4 bucks a month for 2 years. And no other similar phone has the same deals. So it could be between Google and the cell provider.
Sure but if Google wanted to push the devices onto people because of tracking purposes wouldn’t they also make them cheaper to buy outright?
I don’t think so. Better to have captive customers on contracts if that is their goal, no?
For the ISP sure, but for Google? I don’t really think they would care all that much.
I guess what I’m getting at is if you buy a phone outright, you have no incentive to keep using it…other than of course wasting your money. But there’s no additional penalty keeping you from leaving the Pixel ecosystem, the financial damage is done.
On a contract, you have a financial penalty for the act of leaving early. So it disincentivizes leaving before 2 years or whatever the length of the contract.
So Google can say to carriers "Hey, we will subsidize our phones for you so you can give them away on contract. You get a captive customer, we get good odds of 2 years of valuable data.
I don’t know if I’m right about any of this, but it explains a lot of questions I have about why Pixels are far and away the best value you can get on contract with any provider, where I am anyway.
I mean it’s technically possible.
But don’t really believe that to be the case.
Either why, in my opinion we one shouldn’t spread information or theories without any concrete evidence at all.
It’s not like I feel sorry for Google or whatever I’m just tired of the constant misinformation and conspiracy theories.
The Pixel might be subsidized to get Android some more market share from Apple, or earn more money Google Play Store sales or whatever. Subsidizing your phone business just to collect more data might make some sense unless you are Google which already knows everything about everyone.
I wouldn’t call it a conspiracy theory any more than saying Facebook is free because you’re the product. To each their own though!
Pixels aren’t free though.
essentially grapheneOs is just plain android, with additional security features/ hardening. It is said to be the most secure (normal) Os in the world.
And one of the nicest feature in my opinion is, that all the google stuff is optional. So play store and play service is just another app. (Instead of a system level privileged process)
And in my opinion, it is just the better operating system.
grapheneos.org/features
I think you, the question should be “why should i not get it” and the answer to this is if, you either need NFC payment (does not work (depending on bank)), or you dont want an app to ever not work, because some apps dont work on it (google play integrety check is the reason)
And it should be mentioned, that grapheneOs has one of the best web installer out there, it is easier to install then any linux distro. It was a dream really.
(and for switching the data transfer might be annoying)
It’s barbones Android, without the Google. You can add the Google stuff if you want, but by default, it comes completely de-Googled.
It also comes with some extra features, like granular app-level permissions, sandboxed Google Play Services (which a lotta apps use), duress PIN, and more.
Widely regarded as the safest and most private “commercial” mobile operating system.
Disclaimer: I run SwapMyOS, a GrapheneOS/custom ROM installation service.
GrapheneOS is a privacy and security focused operating system for your phone, based on Android. It provides much more security than stock Android. If you want a more private or secure device, then GrapheneOS is the go-to recommendation for Pixel devices.
.
.
.
The lead Dev of graphene has a very bad history. Just Google Daniel Micay
I recommend avoiding it.
One one hand, a superior ROM choice
On the other hand, subpar crappy Google hardware
Totally agree processor wise. But can you give me a phone that has bigger camera sensor (+telephoto) than Pixel 9 Pro that has a screen smaller than 6.3 inches?
I am a freak who would die happy if this OS somehow made it onto my Unihertz Jellystar
Google sold 40 million Pixels between 2016 and 2023, and that number has grown rapidly in the last few years. I think an estimate of around 40 million active Pixel phones is reasonable, which would give GrapheneOS a relative market share of 1%; certainly less than 2%.
I’m certain that most people between 2016 and 2023 bought multiple devices to upgrade old ones.
I’m on, I think, my 3rd Pixel. All of them were chosen because of the possibility of putting a third-party firmware on them, but my current one is the first I’ve actually done it to.
.
Do you walk up to every stranger with a Pixel and ask if they run GrapheneOS? No?
Lol I talk to family, friends, colleagues, people I play ports with. Have literally never once seen a Graphene phone.
I literally cannot think of anyone anymore who even roots their phone, let alone installs a third party OS.
Y’all are honestly deluded if you think it’s remotely close to OPs numbers.
I doubt OP’s numbers, but your experience is not representative data of anything except your friend group.
Friend group, work group, sports groups, friends of friends met at parties etc. It’s a sample size in the hundreds, and includes dozens who used to root their phones and install third party OSes in the early days of Android. It’s not insignificant to see zero usage when OP is claiming 50%. If their numbers are to be believed there should be regions where there’s close to 100% usage.
That image is a horrible way to represent any ratio. I love it!
I actually do like it. I don’t see it as trying to show an actually accurate ratio, or for you to be able to make an informed decisions from it. I read it as a vibe check, just a quick “what would a room fu LLM of pixel users” look like.
I’m not sure if that’d be what it’d look like… distributions are hardly ever that heterogeneous.
I’d bet all the GrapheneOS users would get together in their own corner and nerd out about their customizations.
For the record: 1 in 25 is 4% …the image gives (intentionally?) the illusion of the proportion being higher.
.
And none of them are Linus from Tech Tips. :P
Isn’t it a bit schitzoid to use an os designed to escape google on a google phone??
It seems like the last breaths of the “do no evil” mantra. Your other options are like Fairphone or the yet to be released Hiroh phone with /e/os which is another flavor of degoogled android.
At the moment Pixel phones are the easiest for people in the US market to degoogle
Thanks for the clarification!
Somehow I am not surprised that the only phone able to use software not made by google is a phone made by google. Or, of course, you can buy iPhone and comply with NSA that way.
I am going to take a lucky guess and say this is by design and not by accident.
I’m not sure what the exact reason is. I would guess the people within Google running the Pixel program still have the freedom to make the phones like that. I don’t think it will last forever, especially if people start adopting degoogled phone operating systems at scale.
GrapheneOS is popular with degoogling, but that’s not its primary goal. If there is a tradeoff between independence from Google and security, they will always choose to increase security.
GrapheneOS is also probably the only custom rom that cooperates with Google to get access to vulnerabilities and patches before the embargo is lifted.
If you want to be completely independent from Google, GrapheneOS is not what you’re looking for. Its it’s a security focused os that also has some degoogling features, not the other way around.
You are right.
I suppose I am a little bit frustrated with the fact that there are 4,9 billion smartphone users and yet 0,5% chance of having a non-US integrated phone. If someone had said that will be the future in 2007, I think most everybody would have thought it preposterous.
Sounds like you want a Fairphone.
I’m worried for “us” not for me :D
At the same time, I run Graphene with no Google services or apps and it’s fantastic. The only thing vs a rom with microg, is you need to be able to depend on unified push or background listening for push notifications. Imo this is actually more de-googled than connecting to Google services with an open source client (which still results in your phone having a constant connection to Google). Graphene also provides options to connect to proxies or alternative services for things like location services, DNS, internet connectivity checks (which can also just be turned off), etc.
Currently, only the Pixel hardware has all the hardware security features GrapheneOS wants. They could support other devices, but then they would have to compromise on security, which is something they don’t want to do. A while ago it was reported that they were looking to partner up with another manufacturer, but I haven’t heard anything about that since.
No other hardware offers the required security hardware features. At the moment, the developers are working to support a model from another, undisclosed vendor.
So you get privacy from individuals while signing up to a company provenly offering back doors to government. It makes sense in the way that govenrment is not going to empty your bank account for sure. But I would call that safety and not privacy.
You don’t need to sign up for any service if you install GOS on Pixel hardware.
The back door can be made in the hardware
Insist on open auditable hardware then.
Graphene explicitly says the 400k are worldwide. You cannot then go ahead and use the US numbers for your comparison. From your own source, Google shipped 10 million Pixel 9 devices in 2023 alone. This does not account for other/older pixel models, or the sum total of sales before that point, or since.
Why not just share the actual number: worldwide, there’s 400k users.
How could they know the actual user count? All they can see is number of downloads, right?
The number of recent updates, it seems. Which is probbaly an OK metric.
You’re right, that is reasonable
Considering that if you use a custom ROM, you’re a pro user, the 1% of the users, this means only one of this two cases:
The Google Pixel line is a complete failure and failed to reach mainstream status, nobody knows the brand and buys the phones in a store, they’re moving 1000x less units than Apple
There’s some error in your numbers
But I’d bet it’s a mix of 2 and 3.
I bought my mom a pixel and installed graphene on it and gave her. She is by no means a power user. Never underestimate the will of nerds to go a step further :)
I wouldn’t consider myself a pro user but graphene was so easy to install. One click of a button while it’s connected to my computer!
I’m one of those people who use GrapheneOS every day, I love my Pixel 9a.
I’ve heard you can’t use banking apps on graphene os, how do you get around that? And are there any other trade offs that you have to make for more privacy?
Both of my banking apps (Wells Fargo and Amex) work just fine for me. Amex doesn’t remember my phone and needs 2fa every login, but that’s fine with me.
I just use the website, so I can’t really tell the difference or give you a proper comparison. I haven’t tried the app, for my bank at least, the website basically is the app.
Like and subscribe and SLAM that “press x to doubt” button so we can grow awareness that there’s literally no way this is true in any universe.
They are comparing USA pixel users with worldwide graphene users…
The world is more than the USA
You are comparing worldwide numbers to US-only numbers.
Yeh, that’s crazy maths…
Makes sense. Pixel is the successor to Nexus, which was always meant for tinkerers. The Pixel is (was?) sold unlocked, too. Unless you bought it from a carrier.
Pixel is also underpowered compared to iPhone and Galaxy, but priced similarly. So either you buy it because you just love Google that much… or you want to do something else with it.
Wondering if Graphene OS supports the AI hallucination camera mode on the Pixel 10 Pro where you zoom it at “100X” and it makes up details. Don’t get me wrong here — as an iPhone/Galaxy user (I main the iPhone but I do use both, and have also used HTC and Motorola) I think the feature is awesome… unless you’re trying to capture text. In which case it won’t work. Well, it’ll try to work. It won’t work well. And I don’t suppose you could show it the text later and update the 100X photo, but if you had that opportunity, you would just take a better picture up close.
I have a Pixel 9 Pro because when I bought it it had the best camera that you can get in Europe. I tried the best iPhone and Samsung phones at the time and Pixel was for sure better, especially in low-light conditions.
Only Huawei has better cameras (by a fair margin as well). I’ve never experienced that it feels slow or underpowered, but maybe that’s the case on paper.
A lot of it is “on paper” as you say.
For example, iPhone uses NVMe SSD storage. The best Android phones use UFS, which is cheaper, and, “on paper,” slower. But there are other bottlenecks to consider, and in real world performance, UFS is at least as good.
I can only speculate as to why Apple uses the part that costs more and is only better in theory, but my best guess is that the iPhone is intended to be used for far longer than they’re marketed. Like Apple marketing would have you believe you need to upgrade every year or two, but Apple engineering would allow you to easily use an iPhone for five years, if you could resist the temptation of marketing. And it’s honestly not really that much different with Android. I have a 2019 Galaxy S10 that still runs relatively well. Could use a new battery, it doesn’t last long when it’s powered on, but it still runs well in the time it has.
Yeah I think a lot of Apple users get really attached to their gadgets and want to use them forever. Also, there’s the resale value that helps the kind of customer that wants to buy the new thing every year. So making sure that the products hold up for a long time is probably a really solid strategy for them.
Kinda/sorta. The resale value is better than on the Android side, but it’s still pretty damn insulting. Mainly because storage doesn’t matter. So you pay more for the extra storage, but you don’t see any of that returned in the resale. If you’re playing the resale game, either stick with base storage, or sell privately (in which case you can’t really say Apple resale is higher, it’s whatever people will pay). But better than either way? Buy a phone that’s a couple years old. Take advantage of the resale situation, but then of course you risk inheriting someone else’s problem. And always always always buy an iPhone in person, and ensure the person has properly signed out of it (and turned off “Find My”). Too many people sell without doing that, and move the money, and you can’t get your money back, and you can’t use the phone either. Don’t let it happen to you. But if you deal with honest people (or ensure their honesty) it removes one issue.
How to say 4% and make it sound more impressive.
One of my ideas for increasing GrapheneOS market share is to market GOS as the minimalist phone so many crave.
In recent times, I’ve stumbled across a handful of articles about how dumbphones are back, and how people crave more minimalist phones to curb smartphone addiction or otherwise.
GrapheneOS is a great minimalist phone that’s still “smart,” yet secure and private.
GOS is a way better option than dumbphones because: