Tails no longer recommending balenaEtcher (tails.net)
from xela@lemmy.ml to privacy@lemmy.ml on 19 Feb 21:06
https://lemmy.ml/post/26220818

I am shocked by this - the quote in below is very concerning:

“However, in 2024, the situation changed: balenaEtcher started sharing the file name of the image and the model of the USB stick with the Balena company and possibly with third parties.”

Can’t see myself using this software anymore…

#privacy

threaded - newest

N0x0n@lemmy.ml on 19 Feb 21:09 next collapse

I tried belenaEtcher once on my Mac… And it seemed to me more like a spyware than an actual software, I was a bit confused and never used it again.

brickfrog@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Feb 21:25 next collapse

That’s interesting, apparently it was mentioned on github but nothing seems to have changed in the end

github.com/balena-io/etcher/issues/3784

Haven’t used that software in a long time but maybe there’s an opt-out somewhere during runtime? Although I don’t see why a user needs to be required to opt out of nonsense like this when just writing firmware to a USB disk.

Only ever touched balenaEtcher when some project or distro recommended it. Overall prefer Rufus for this sort of thing when working on Windows.

wizardbeard@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Feb 21:54 collapse

I’ve used Sardu on Windows for making multi-iso bootable USB sticks a long time ago in the past, but I’d admittedly never looked at their ToS or Privacy Policy. My use case was slapping some live boot antivirus scanners, data recovery tools, and one or two lightweight liveboot-Linux ISOs on one USB as a portable toolkit.

When I’m making anything else from Windows, I’ve always stuck with Rufus. Had never heard of BalenaEtcher before now.

Cataphract@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 07:10 collapse

I"m horrible with names of programs and mess with a lot of junk comps switching out OS’s and just tinkering around so I’m always using crazy utility programs. BalenaEtcher is used in a lot of tutorials or guides for installations, I think recently both Elementary OS and even Ubuntu had instructions pointing towards BalenaEtcher.

I never thought it was a great program, it was finicky to use and errors out quickly multiple times. Looking back I saw the signs, weird new program being promoted above other “well established” burn programs, ads, and now scrolling down their webpage it’s just a bunch of promotional subscription bullshit. I think I just threw up in my mouth a little bit looking at the “balenacloud” and “balenasense”, like if they’re collecting your data through etcher then all of that shit is probably compromised. Another fucking google wannabe corp.

PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz on 19 Feb 21:37 next collapse

Ahh too bad because balenaEtcher just werks for me.

Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 23:34 collapse

If you actually read the post, you would have known, it does work, but there are some privacy concerns with it:

“However, in 2024, the situation changed: balenaEtcher started sharing the file name of the image and the model of the USB stick with the Balena company and possibly with third parties.”

PrivateNoob@sopuli.xyz on 21 Feb 22:19 collapse

I did read the post before constructing my comment and that’s why I feel sad for seeing privacy concerns popping up at balena, because that’s just my fav.

filister@lemmy.world on 19 Feb 21:40 next collapse

Happy user of Ventoy here

warmaster@lemmy.world on 19 Feb 21:48 next collapse

Good luck with the binary blob!

BlastboomStrice@mander.xyz on 19 Feb 22:01 next collapse

For some more context:

lemmy.one/post/19193506

💀💀 seems like dd commands and gnome’s MultiWriter might be the only ways to flash stuff on linux

Telorand@reddthat.com on 19 Feb 22:09 next collapse

Fedora Writer is another one (also works on Windows and maybe Mac), and there’s also GLIM for multiboot, similar to Ventoy.

RVGamer06@sh.itjust.works on 19 Feb 22:36 next collapse

Gonna look into GLIM, thanks

riscwarez@feddit.online on 19 Feb 23:21 collapse

There's also Popsicle which is made by the folks over at System76.

SatyrSack@feddit.org on 19 Feb 23:49 collapse

The linked article lists Raspberry Pi Imager as an option for writing Tails from macOS, and that is also available on Linux and Windows.

www.raspberrypi.com/software/

Though the site only shows how to install on Ubuntu, the GitHub repo for the tool does have an AppImage that should work on any distro.

github.com/raspberrypi/rpi-imager/releases

Buelldozer@lemmy.today on 20 Feb 00:22 collapse

I thought the binary blob thing was explained?

Basically UEFI booting requires shims and those need to be signed so the Ventoy author is re-using the ones from Fedora and OpenSUSE. This can be verified by comparing hashes, which the author of that comment shows how to do.

This whole thing seems to come down to people freaking the F out because they don’t understand how the software works and the Author of the software is currently PO’d off at the community and stopped answering questions.

rumba@lemmy.zip on 20 Feb 01:36 next collapse

The price of doing business with UEFI. There are ways around it but it works so fucking smooth. I’m down with it.

jaxxed@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 13:02 collapse

A reason was given but no source was provided, and their response to the question was very slow. I don’t trust it.

CarbonBasedNPU@lemm.ee on 19 Feb 21:48 next collapse

My luck with Ventoy has been very poor. The isos will work a few times and then something breaks and I need to re download all my isos and format and try again.

Telorand@reddthat.com on 19 Feb 22:11 next collapse

This has been my experience as well. Some people love it, but I’m not gonna rely on it for critical backup or recovery tools (also, there’s that whole binary blob thing, besides).

ObsidianZed@lemmy.world on 19 Feb 22:52 collapse

I have had no complaints about it, but with that said, I absolutely would not use it for any vital backup your recovery tools.

It was fantastic however, to use to load up with handfuls of different live distro ISOs to play around with.

Xanza@lemm.ee on 19 Feb 23:12 collapse

That’s… Interesting. I’ve been using Ventoy professionally for like… 2-3 years now and I’ve not once had an issue with daily use. Unironically like 2500-3000 uses without issue.

SatyrSack@feddit.org on 20 Feb 16:55 collapse

Completely aside from the blob issue mentioned, the Tails team has recommended against using a multiboot utility like Ventoy to install Tails. Ventoy works fine for basically any other operating system (again, aside from the blob issue), just not Tails, which is what this post is about.

warmaster@lemmy.world on 19 Feb 21:47 next collapse

…and that’s how I met your mother fork

some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org on 19 Feb 21:57 next collapse

Glad I saw this. I downloaded the tool on recommendation from a forum post when I was reviving my homelab. I’ll nuke it for sure.

davel@lemmy.ml on 19 Feb 22:01 next collapse

♬ Hello dd my old friend
I’ve come sudo with you again ♬

Edie@lemmy.ml on 19 Feb 23:29 next collapse

Hello cat or cp or pv… Or anything else that works with files

mac@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 16:07 collapse

Huh this is news to me. Wonder why dd has been the defacto standard in guides everywhere for the past 15-20+ years

sparky@lemmy.federate.cc on 20 Feb 01:42 collapse

… and the sign said the bytes of the distro are written to the SD card …. if they’re un-tar’d

TheImpressiveX@lemm.ee on 19 Feb 22:05 next collapse

Doesn’t the official guide recommend using GNOME Disk Utility anyway?

fartsparkles@lemmy.world on 19 Feb 22:32 next collapse

dd
lime@feddit.nu on 19 Feb 22:36 next collapse

i still don’t understand why anyone would use etcher. it’s an electron wrapper over dd. it’s 80MB where rufus is 1.5. when it appeared there were already other programs that did its job better.

chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 19 Feb 23:38 next collapse

Rufus seems to be just for Windows and dd does not have a gui

lime@feddit.nu on 20 Feb 08:31 collapse

that’s correct. on windows, rufus is a better tool, and on linux or mac it’s just a built-in command with a manual packed in.

also, ubuntu ships with startup image creator, and gnome disks ships as a flatpak, if those are more your speed.

chicken@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 09:51 collapse

Thanks for the info, I’m on linux mint and after checking these out it isn’t immediately apparent from their websites whether or how I could install them. Still think etcher occupies a niche that alternatives don’t fill, its website directs you straight to installing it, it’s cross platform, and using it is very easy, so it’s something that could reasonably be linked to in various install tutorials.

lime@feddit.nu on 20 Feb 10:24 collapse

on mint you install them as packages.

HelloRoot@lemy.lol on 20 Feb 02:27 next collapse

I like clicking buttons that have a text on them saying what they do instead of trying to memorize a gajillion terminal commands and flags where I have to enter more commands and flags to see what they do.

SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Feb 03:07 next collapse

plus it’s some some sanity checks like not showing you your system drives. Or warning you when the drive you are about to nuke is suspiciously large and maybe not the usb drive you actually want to use.

This is basically the main feature. Stopping you from fatfingering the wrong drive

EngineerGaming@feddit.nl on 20 Feb 05:43 next collapse

On Windows, Rufus is just as easy to use tho. And on Linux, there is Gnome Disks.

lime@feddit.nu on 20 Feb 08:22 collapse

use rufus.

kn33@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 03:47 next collapse

I’ve typically used Etcher when I have to write an ISO on Windows

lime@feddit.nu on 20 Feb 08:21 collapse

use rufus.

QualifiedKitten@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 20:11 collapse

I used it because that’s what the instructions on the Linux Mint website for creating a bootable USB stick from Windows say to do.

I have no clue what “electron wrapper”, “dd”, or “rufus” are. I’m trying to learn more, but can’t learn it all in one day.

…readthedocs.io/…/burn.html#in-windows-mac-os-or-…

lime@feddit.nu on 20 Feb 22:35 collapse

weird that the installation guide is hosted on a separate website that hasn’t been updated in eight years. that’s irresponsible of them. anyway rufus is a better version of etcher that you can download for windows.

Xanza@lemm.ee on 19 Feb 22:53 next collapse

Generally Ventoy is better than both. Choose a dedicated flash storage, flash Ventoy to it, then click and drag as many ISO’s as can fit on your drive and you can boot from any one of them at any time.

Much better than Etcher or Rufus, IMO.

pineapplelover@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 03:47 collapse

Who tf is downvoting? Ventoy is the best

iturnedintoanewt@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 05:27 collapse

I’m guessing the people aware of Ventoy’s undocumented binary blob.

lemmy.one/post/19193506

Xanza@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 08:50 collapse

From literally the same thread: lemm.ee/comment/14867214

Lemmchen@feddit.org on 19 Feb 23:05 next collapse

I’ve been avoiding it ever since the Balena moniker change.

shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip on 19 Feb 23:42 next collapse

Sudo dd if=tails.iso of=/dev/sdb

sneezycat@sopuli.xyz on 20 Feb 00:40 next collapse

bash: Sudo: command not found

shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip on 20 Feb 00:52 next collapse

Lol, nice one

Steamymoomilk@sh.itjust.works on 20 Feb 02:01 next collapse

Sudontplease :P

renzev@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 07:42 collapse

Ah, a doas user, I see!

jaxxed@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 13:00 collapse

Or working on a case sensitive system

renzev@lemmy.world on 22 Feb 13:47 collapse

Oh, damn, that was the joke!? Went right over my head lol

CosmicTurtle0@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 02:28 next collapse

In my early days of Linux, I royally fucked up a USB thumb drive (back when they were expensive) using dd and as a result do not trust myself with it.

I would use Hannah Montana Linux if it was the only GUI option to burn a USB ISO.

shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip on 20 Feb 04:39 collapse

Weird. I can’t even tell you how many times I’ve used that command. But it’s probably been several thousand. And I’ve never screwed up a flash drive that way.

There has been once or twice where I’ve pulled the flash drive out too quickly after it finished writing and it actually hadn’t finished writing and had to redo it, but other than that, I’ve not actually screwed up any drives beyond repair or anything.

purplemeowanon@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 04:01 collapse

for Windows?

shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip on 20 Feb 04:40 next collapse

Oh, sorry. I didn’t realize you were on Windows. That’s a Linux command. I haven’t used Windows very much since about 2018, so I don’t even consider Windows anymore unless it’s brought up.

purplemeowanon@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 22:55 collapse

The article was about Windows. And, no, I’m not on Windows. i use GrapheneOS on my phone and triple-boot Arch/Debian/Fedora on my laptop. I’m just making the point that the article was about Windows so replying with UNIX commands doesn’t really make sense.

Revan343@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 04:51 next collapse

Install WSL

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 04:55 next collapse

Install wsl lol.

ArcaneSlime@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 07:51 collapse

Rufus.

And who cares if there’s spyware on windows, you’re already using windows so there is, it’s windows. At that point you may as well just use etcher, but I’d use Rufus anyway because let’s be real it’s just better. The only reason not to use Rufus is because it’s windows exclusive, but if you’re using windows that probably doesn’t bother you, so…

renzev@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 01:04 next collapse

I remember a while back, years before this surfaced, there was a thread on /g/ with a group photo of Balena’s employees and a caption like “why does it take so many people to develop an electron wrapper around dd”. Obviously it was low effort engagement bait (balena does much more than etcher), but the comments were full of people calling the company a glowie honeypot and the like. Moral of the story: Trust the schizos, they sense spyware form lightyears away.

ewigkaiwelo@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 16:28 collapse

So tor is compromised?

solomon42069@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 02:44 next collapse

I knew that UI had something to hide!

Never trust an overly fancy UI…

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 04:14 collapse

nah, plenty of good stuff with good ui.

balena had effects and stuff but a pretty tasteless gui tbh, and ads promoting other shit…

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 03:12 next collapse

what is a good one to use, is there something like rufus on linux

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 04:53 next collapse

Can always use dd but I always go stupid when I need to set boot flags and all that crap, which is so much easier with etcher. I think I’ve done dd with gparted in the past.

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 05:20 next collapse

does gparted set the correct flags too, can it also do windows

i just want a dumb ui i can dumbly drag the iso file to and it takes care of everything for me.

lime@feddit.nu on 20 Feb 08:35 collapse

i’ve never needed to set a single flag with dd. i just do if=the_iso of=the_disk. what flags?

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 09:46 collapse

Don’t you need to mark usb disks as bootable if you want to boot from them to install Linux or whatever

lime@feddit.nu on 20 Feb 10:25 next collapse

that’s not something i’ve ever had to do, i’ve only done that for hard drives.

qpsLCV5@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 16:37 collapse

i think it depends on the image you get - for archlinux you can simply cat (or dd) the file onto a usb stick and it works perfectly fine, bootable. but i think i have seen an image at some point where it didn’t work, but i don’t recall what it was.

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 17:32 collapse

It won’t depend. I think it’s because back in the day we never had an easy way to force boot a device, if a device wasn’t flagged as bootable it wouldn’t boot

EngineerGaming@feddit.nl on 20 Feb 05:41 next collapse

I just use Gnome Disks for convenience over dd.

umbrella@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 23:33 collapse

is there something special needed for windows isos, it doesnt seem to want to boot for me

oceane@jlai.lu on 21 Feb 14:14 collapse

circle.gnome.org? Never tried their ISO software, I just use dd.

Rozz@lemmy.sdf.org on 20 Feb 03:10 next collapse

What options are there for flashing to SD cards? Something that works on Mac too would be nice. A gui is preferred.

downhomechunk@midwest.social on 20 Feb 04:21 collapse

Plug your usb drive in and run lsblk to figure out which letter to use instead of x in /dev/sdx

sudo dd if=image.iso of=/dev/sdx bs=1M status=progress

EDIT: I totally didn’t read your request. This is not gui or Mac based, but it still might help someone.

Revan343@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 04:51 next collapse

Mac should have dd, I’d assume lsblk as well not lsblk though. There’s fdisk though

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 04:53 next collapse

I’m pretty sure mac, being based off freebsd, would include dd

Rozz@lemmy.sdf.org on 20 Feb 19:03 next collapse

Thanks for trying.

I’m not against terminal, but I’d just have to look up commands every time that I rarely use.

Littux@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 11:50 collapse

The comment said “SD Card” so it would be /dev/mmcblk*

downhomechunk@midwest.social on 21 Feb 14:15 collapse

I use a microSD to usb adapter and have 2 spinning rust disks. So it’s /sdc for me, but i still always double check. Dd isn’t called the disk destroyer for nothing.

Majestic@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 03:27 next collapse

Yet another reason for people to run a default prompt (deny until prompt answer) firewall.

cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 04:51 collapse

A what?

ookiiBoy@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 20 Feb 05:35 next collapse

Good question. I will attempt to clarify:

OP is saying that individual should run firewalls on their machines, that block port activity by default, and only allow traffic upon an approved request by the administrator account.

Majestic@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 09:54 collapse

An interactive firewall.

One that blocks programs from accessing the internet and prompts the first time they try until you click a button that says allow or you choose the alternative which is deny. A program like this you’d have no reason to give it internet access, it’s something whose operations should be entirely local.

krolden@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 04:47 next collapse

dd

madame_gaymes@programming.dev on 20 Feb 05:44 next collapse

Never understood why you would use anything else. It’s in coreutils!!!

kilgore_trout@feddit.it on 20 Feb 08:30 next collapse

Many won’t touch the command line.

madame_gaymes@programming.dev on 20 Feb 17:34 collapse

I know, but just because someone doesn’t understand something or ignores it doesn’t mean it isn’t the best/simplest choice for 90% of cases.

timroerstroem@feddit.dk on 20 Feb 09:05 next collapse

There are people coming from Windows, which does not have dd.

pr0sp3kt@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 12:44 next collapse

J think the best solution for window$ ppl is Rufus?

madame_gaymes@programming.dev on 20 Feb 17:31 collapse

Install Linux! /s

krolden@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 14:36 collapse

stackoverflow.com/…/windows-powershell-command-li…

Or just WSL

fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Feb 19:48 collapse

“just” setting that up takes much longer than installing a small app to do it.

krolden@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 19:54 collapse

OK so keep using the small app that is reporting your usage activity

Or just dont use windows

dev_null@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 17:36 next collapse

It’s faster to drag and drop a downloaded ISO and choose the target from a dropdown, than do it on a command line. And get a progress bar. As much as command line is usually faster, it isn’t in this case.

Yes you can also get a progress bar on the command line but it’s more typing again, and realistically you need to look the option up every time if you use dd once every 3 months.

madame_gaymes@programming.dev on 20 Feb 17:46 collapse

Lmao. Uses a computer, typing is too much. It took more typing to write your comment than to craft a tab-completed dd command, even if you had to call the help menu to refresh your available options, jus’ sayin’

I get it though, the general public are scared of the big bad 'puter magic and need GUIs.

dev_null@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 18:21 next collapse

Let me try: Lmao. Uses a computer, still does stuff the slower way because learning new things is too difficult.

To be serious, I am looking for the best solutions for my use cases, not adequate ones. Yes dd works perfectly fine and as you noted doesn’t take long to use anyway. But just because it’s fine doesn’t mean other approaches aren’t better.

A GUI tool can offer or take a list of download URLs for common distros so downloading isn’t a separate step, it can check if the target device is a flash drive and not a hard drive by mistake, it can automatically choose the optimal block size for the device, it can verify the process by reading it back from the device, can show you the current filesystem, label, and usage of the target device to confirm, it can handle flashing to multiple devices at the same time with separate and total progress bars.

If I wanted to do all that on the command line it’d be quite a lot of commands or a sizeable script to write. Or I can use a simple dd command and lose out on all of the above. Either way it’s a worse option. I will only use dd when a GUI tool isn’t installed, or when I’m on a system without a DE.

madame_gaymes@programming.dev on 20 Feb 18:35 collapse

We will have to agree to disagree.

At least you came back with reasons beyond “I don’t like typing.”

ETA: > learning new things is too difficult.

I could use this argument for folks that don’t want to learn CLI as well, doesn’t really track in either direction.

Tja@programming.dev on 20 Feb 21:51 collapse

Tab complete? Just ^R that shit!

madame_gaymes@programming.dev on 20 Feb 21:56 collapse

Shhh, that’s too advanced. Besides, CLI is outdated and slower than GUIs, this is just insane behavior /s

I honestly didn’t even need to specify tab-completed. It’s still less typing than their comment unless your paths are miles long.

refurbishedrefurbisher@lemmy.sdf.org on 21 Feb 18:51 collapse

Because GNU dd-rescue exists

Firnin@feddit.org on 20 Feb 12:23 collapse

It is indeed the best way, but somehow I am still anxious using this command, even after flashing countless USB drives 😅

memphis@sopuli.xyz on 20 Feb 15:11 collapse

I’ve made it a habit to type out the command without sudo at first, then when it yells at me about permissions I am reminded to go back and double-check.

pH3ra@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 06:21 next collapse

If you need a FOSS, cross platform GUI for bootable USB sticks, Raspberry Pi Imager is a really good solution.
It is mainly used to flash SD cards for RPIs, but also you can burn any ISO on any support with it.

phar@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 18:04 collapse

I used to use the fedora media writer but the RPi imager software is so easy I switched

DaTingGoBrrr@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 06:34 next collapse

balenaEtcher never worked for me. No image that I flashed has been usable to boot. The RPi imager has been working flawlessly

bour@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 07:44 next collapse

The MX Linux live USB maker should work well on Debian based distros.

kepix@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 08:40 next collapse

have they tried also tracking for errors, cause it fucks up every second image unlike rufus

geneva_convenience@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 10:22 collapse

Truth. Etcher is garbage. Rufus is king.

Orygin@sh.itjust.works on 20 Feb 09:02 next collapse

I mean for privacy things it makes sense to avoid leaking anything. But I fail to understand where the danger is to have anonymous data that says a user installed “Ubuntu-24.04-wappity-whatever.iso” to “KINGSTON DATA TRAVELER 32GB” at some point.

major_jellyfish@lemmy.ca on 20 Feb 10:02 next collapse

If anything that seems like worthwhile analytics for the dev team to have access to.

Most software lets you opt out of sending anonymous analytics data though.

interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 11:11 collapse

They could just ask. “Please allow us to know what you flash and on what device so we can improve the software” yes, no, tell me more, show me the data

Petter1@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 12:49 collapse

Then I would have no problem using the SW, transparency is important to me

Petter1@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 12:48 collapse

It is a trap for people not knowing and government may use it as excuse to activate executive

[deleted] on 20 Feb 09:10 next collapse

.

kaidezee@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 09:13 next collapse

Honestly, if you’re using Windows, then you most likely already sent any and all of your secrets to Microsoft anyway. Including that you installed Tails.

llii@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Feb 09:21 next collapse

Thank you for pointing it out.

mcx808@feddit.uk on 20 Feb 10:28 next collapse

Not used it since I discovered this nonsense. Shows how seriously they take security. github.com/balena-io/etcher/issues/3410

Meshuggah333@beehaw.org on 20 Feb 11:11 next collapse

Ventoy is life!

pupbiru@aussie.zone on 20 Feb 13:47 next collapse

did they ever clear up that random unexplained binaries issue?

Meshuggah333@beehaw.org on 20 Feb 20:10 collapse

From what I could gather, they’re taken from Fedora and OpenSUSE. They’re signed blobs for secure boot support.

Mwa@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 20:31 collapse

Real

PullPantsUnsworn@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 12:30 next collapse

Is no one aware of Fedora Media Writer? It’s FOSS and the most trustworthy ISO burning software in existence. It’s only issue is that its named as if it is written only for producing Fedora bootable media. It works for everything.

kalpol@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 13:27 next collapse

Opensuse has one too. And dd exists for the brave or the foolish

rowanthorpe@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 14:57 collapse

The article at the end mentions they suggest dd as alternative for MacOS (due to Unix user space). It seems the balena -> rufus decision is about the easiest-onramp Mac+Win-portable option, for those uncomfortable dropping to low-level device-writing CLI tools in their current system.

Side-note: Last time I was on a friend’s Windows I installed dd simply enough both as mingw-w64 (native compiled) and under Cygwin. So for Windows users who are comfortable using dd it only requires a minor step. When I once used WSL devices were accessible too, but that was WSL1 (containerized), whereas WSL2 (virtualized) probably makes device-mapping complex(?) enough to not be worth it there.

desktop_user@lemmy.blahaj.zone on 20 Feb 17:13 collapse

WSL2 has relatively easy (a few powershell commands iirc) device mounting, provided you aren’t trying to mount C: or the windows install drive (not necessarily the same).

rowanthorpe@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 21:15 collapse

Thanks, that’s good to know, but for raw-writing a bootable image to a device do you (or anyone reading) know if there are also straightforward powershell commands for mapping devices at the block level? (as opposed to mounting at filesystem level)

ubergeek@lemmy.today on 20 Feb 16:21 next collapse

I dunno… I just use dd.

qpsLCV5@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 16:34 collapse

cat works perfectly fine too 👌

ubergeek@lemmy.today on 20 Feb 16:39 collapse

Eh, I prefer being able to specify block sizes, to maximize the throughput.

Tja@programming.dev on 20 Feb 21:50 collapse

Seeing progress, too

fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Feb 19:47 next collapse

Or gnome disks, which also adds an “open with ‘write to drive’” option to isos and images

Mwa@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 20:28 collapse

Meh i find it slow.

OhVenus_Baby@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 14:48 next collapse

Linux mint factory USB creator just right click and make bootable.

orize@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 16:23 next collapse

Friendship ended with Balena

Now Rufus is my new best friend

ftbd@feddit.org on 20 Feb 16:53 next collapse

Why use a fancy GUI tool when good old dd does the trick

friend_of_satan@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 18:21 next collapse

pv for life.

FauxLiving@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 18:32 next collapse

cat is the tool of distinguished gentlemen

fallingcats@discuss.tchncs.de on 20 Feb 19:45 collapse

dd status=progress can also tell you how far along the operation is.

friend_of_satan@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 23:54 collapse

Dang, nice! I’ve been using dd for nearly 30 years and have never seen that. I actually used to used dcfldd because it had better progress reporting than dd (and supported repeated patterns for input). Thanks for sharing!

OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 19:04 next collapse

for Windows

Euphoma@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 21:39 next collapse

cp command works well too

Wispy2891@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 23:09 collapse

Because of the risk of accidentally wiping the main drive if you’re just copy pasting stuff

ftbd@feddit.org on 21 Feb 11:22 collapse

If that happens to you, that’s both a great reminder that mindlessly copy-pasting commands from the internet is a terrible idea, and a chance to practice your restore-from-backup routine! I see no downsides.

Atlas_@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 17:25 next collapse

Rufus is great! I worked with the maintainer to fix a bug in hardware they didn’t have and it was a very pleasant experience.

Xttweaponttx@sh.itjust.works on 20 Feb 19:05 next collapse

Balenaetcher has, for me at least, failed to write to USBs for the last 3 years or so that I’ve tried to use it - meanwhile random iso writers from flatpak have been more reliable for me. Very obnoxious that so many iso related sites recommend it. Rufus kicks tons of ass, if for whatever reason you’re still on windows.

Also on most distros I’ve tried, the disk utility has some sort of right click or context menu that gets you a ‘restore disk image’ button that works great as well.

Edit= I used Popsicle USB writer from flatpak on steam deck with no issue today! Made by system76 (makers of popOS) and found on flatpak. It is absolutely no frills, but works well enough to write an SD card image for a raspberry pi! 🙂

Tja@programming.dev on 20 Feb 21:48 collapse

Flatpack? You are using Linux and you need “iso writers”? Is your dd broken, son?

lornosaj@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 01:03 next collapse

This sounded like a techy Ron Swanson.

Tja@programming.dev on 21 Feb 07:51 collapse

Are the scissors broken in your house, son?

At least one person got the reference!

Xttweaponttx@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 16:06 collapse

😂 I also read this as Ron’s voice!

Nah as much as i love doing stuff via terminal, I am extra paranoid specifically about writing to the wrong device and losing data; I prefer as many confirmations as possible that I’m writing to the correct drive, and graphical installers tend to give me just a few more reassurances. A few examples would be stuff like

  • a graphical representation of partitions (the general layout of a drive tends to offer an easy ‘fingerprint’ in my mind; like the pattern of partitions help me confirm I’m looking at, say, a Debian install USB compared to a single-partition general purpose storage disk)
  • icons for different types of devices, like an SD card, USB, or hard disk icon
  • confirmation dialogues summarizing what device is targeted, and what all will be performed

I’m also the kind of person who stares at a written email worrying about every last nuance of my phrasing, so 🤷‍♂️😂 definitely a me problem, I think!

nullpotential@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 20:54 next collapse

Not using Ventoy in 2025?

utubas@lemm.ee on 20 Feb 23:25 next collapse

Ventoy uses several blobs without any instructions of compiling them yourself?

Preflight_Tomato@lemm.ee on 21 Feb 19:31 collapse

I guess I could install Ventoy on the raspberry Pi’s SD card, but I prefer it to be bare, since the idea is to keep it simple.

LovableSidekick@lemmy.world on 20 Feb 23:05 next collapse

I used it less than a week ago for a Mint install, worked fine.

Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 23:26 collapse

If you actually read the post, you would have known, it does work, but there are some privacy concerns with it:

“However, in 2024, the situation changed: balenaEtcher started sharing the file name of the image and the model of the USB stick with the Balena company and possibly with third parties.”

LovableSidekick@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 00:49 collapse

I seriously DGAF who knows which Mint edition I installed or the brand of flash drive I used.

JayObey711@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 13:13 collapse

Dude really goes to a cyber security community and hits them with the ‘i have nothing to hide’

Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 20 Feb 23:25 next collapse

Just use dd. It’s not that hard. You pass it 2 arguments: if= the file you want to flash, and of= the destination. If you’re feeling fancy, pass in some status=progress. And don’t forget to prepend it with sudo. That’s it.

harsh3466@lemmy.ml on 20 Feb 23:42 collapse

I just tried this the other day and was unable to boot from the USB. Any chance you could shed some light on what I might have screwed up?

The command was:

dd if=fedora.iso of=/dev/sdc bs=4M status=progress

The USB stick was not mounted and the fedora image was verified. The command completed successfully but I couldn’t boot from it. When I used fedora writer to burn the same image to the same USB stick it booted no problem.

Edit: spelling & capitalization

massacre@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 01:26 next collapse

Don’t use Fedora myself, but it may not be a hybrid ISO that becomes bootable when written… so I looked and you are missing a flag

dd if=/path/to/image.iso of=/dev/sdX bs=8M status=progress oflag=direct

From docs.fedoraproject.org/…/creating-and-using-a-liv…

harsh3466@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 01:44 next collapse

Ah! Thank you! I knew it was something I screwed up!

Rogue@feddit.uk on 21 Feb 02:52 collapse

You didn’t screw up, you beautifully proved why the CLI is never a simple solution.

Abnorc@lemm.ee on 21 Feb 12:10 next collapse

This is why people trying to pass this as a primary option baffle me a bit. dd is not that bad in isolation, but all of these little commands add up.

If we want Linux to be mainstream, we need to accept that most users aren’t going to be linux enthusiasts. They just want a PC that works normally.

admin@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 17:25 collapse

It reminded me when I told a coworker he could force the Windows shutdowns with the command 'shutdown -p -f" from either a Run.exe or a cmd window.

Then he said it wasn’t working, and that the cmd window would just open and close quickly but no shutdown.

Imagine my surprise when he was doing shutdown -pf .

gnuhaut@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 15:49 collapse

I don’t think oflags=direct has any influence on the result. Apparently that’s about disabling the page cache in the kernel, which can avoid a situation in which the system slows down due to buildup yet-to-write pages.

massacre@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 17:33 collapse

Perhaps not. But the flag allows for direct I/O for data, bypassing buffers which can be overrun with certain size blocks, potentially causing dirty buffer depending on the machine being used. My understanding is that it’s “more reliable” for writing (especially on shitty USB Flash drives) and getting the exact ISO properly written.

But it could be useless all the same - I’m just pointing out that OPs command is not the one recommended by Fedora when writing their ISO. Also OP is less likely to pull the drive before buffers have flushed this way.

gnuhaut@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 19:13 collapse

Oh yeah that’s where I was getting at, but I didn’t have time to write that out earlier. I agree that OP probably pulled out the usb stick before buffers were flushed. I imagine that direct I/O would mitigate this problem a lot because presumably whatever buffers still exist (there would some hardware buffers and I think Linux kernel I/O buffers) will be minimal compared to the potentially large amount of dirty pages one might accumulate using normal cached writes. So I imagine those buffers would be empty very shortly (less than one second maybe?) after dd finishes, whereas I’ve seen regular dd finish tens of seconds before my usb stick stopped blinking it’s LED. Still if you wait for that long the result will be the same.

Maiq@lemy.lol on 21 Feb 01:35 collapse

Did you make sure that the of is correct? lsblk to make sure.

If your sure it wrote to the right drive i would make sure that you have a good download. Did you run your checksums?

I think fedora works with secureboot but you might want to disable it just to see if that is the issue. I believe you can reenable it after install.

Make sure to go into the bios and boot from external drive/usb.

Out of 15 years of using dd i have never had a problem.

harsh3466@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 01:43 collapse

I did verify with lsblk, with a listing before and after plugging in the stick to be absolutely sure.

I also did verify the checksum of the ISO.

I’ll double check SecureBoot, but as I mentioned, the same ISO written to the same stick with Fedora writer did boot in the same machine it wouldn’t boot from with the dd version.

I know it’s something I did or didn’t do to make it work correctly, so this is not me trying to dunk on dd, just trying to understand what I did wrong.

Maiq@lemy.lol on 21 Feb 03:19 collapse

just trying to understand what I did wrong.

You might not have done anything wrong.

There is also the possibility of a bad USB drive or write memory failure. There is lots of things that could go wrong that’s not your fault. Might try a different USB or a different USB port on your machine.

You might want to try zeroing out the USB, if=/dev/zero. Then you might need to make a new partition table. You can use something like gparted. Or linuxconfig.org/how-to-manipulate-partition-table…

You can try GPT or DOS. I dont think it matters.

Not sure if the ISO will have the partition table so you might want make the new partition table just to be sure the stick defiantly has one. If dd overwrites it from the iso no harm no foul.

Thats all the troubleshooting steps I can think of right now.

BoxOfFeet@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 00:42 next collapse

Wow, I was not aware of that. I really liked balena. Thankfully, I haven’t been using it since installing Mint.

SpatchyIsOnline@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 06:34 next collapse

Here’s a wildcard people might not know about: Raspberry Pi Imager

I use it because it’s faster than Etcher and it also has a bunch of quick links to download popular images (mainly for RPI and other arm-based SBCs) in one click which is handy if you use those regularly.

maniel@lemmy.ml on 21 Feb 13:38 next collapse

i still had issues using 150MB electron based bloated and heavy software instead of rufus, not that it worked for me anyway

admin@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 17:20 collapse

I only tried to use it once, and same. 150MB of a Web app to copy an ISO? I think I was using a Macbook to flash it and decided to use ventoy instead, with my PC.

AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 18:06 collapse

I understand that it needed a GUI, but 150 megs?? When :

~ 
❯ ll `which dd`
-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 63K Sep 29 16:36 /usr/bin/dd*

~ 
❯ 
admin@sh.itjust.works on 21 Feb 18:14 collapse

Yeah Mac has dd too, I often forget about the terminal existing there. I wish Ventoy for Mac was a thing tho.

oceane@jlai.lu on 21 Feb 14:20 next collapse

Unrelated to balenaEtcher but I haven’t been able to flash ISO files from Windows 11, either by using Rufus, Etcher, Fedora Media Writer, or even the WSL. I need to borrow a computer running a FLOSS operating system or to install OpenBSD first, and then from OpenBSD to download and burn an ISO file.

AugustWest@lemmy.world on 21 Feb 17:43 collapse

That sounds like an issue with your computer rather than W11. I just used Etcher on my W11 desktop to flash Mint XFCE yesterday with no issues.

oceane@jlai.lu on 22 Feb 11:08 collapse

Thanks for the tip, I’ll try that with different computers.

Irelephant@lemm.ee on 21 Feb 15:37 collapse

Thats a shame, it was one of the few disk imagers that “just worked”