Degoogle Progress
from degooglerleon@lemmy.zip to degoogle@lemmy.ml on 30 Mar 00:27
https://lemmy.zip/post/61635766

Its a good degoogle phone?

#degoogle

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eneff@discuss.tchncs.de on 30 Mar 01:04 next collapse

why do people insist on using fucking brave

[deleted] on 30 Mar 01:37 next collapse

.

sompreno@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 02:09 next collapse

Agreed, out of box brave is kind of bad (similar to firefox) but once you personalize it its one of the best chromium browsers out there especially on mobile.

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 02:12 next collapse

I TOTALLY agree with that; it’s not that great straight out of the box, but if you take 15 minutes of your time to customize it, it’ll be perfect for daily use.

XLE@piefed.social on 30 Mar 08:31 collapse

Brave is easier to fix than Firefox, not counting its forks. And, depending on how you feel about Firefox-like performance on mobile devices vs Chrome-likes (FF-likes are much slower especially on older devices, have no tab grouping, suffer extremely subpar handling of old tab management, have really frustrating bookmark management), even the good Firefox forks lag behind substantially.

sulfidedisburseangledafternoontipper@piefed.blahaj.zone on 30 Mar 03:02 next collapse

Here’s a brief synopsis of the various things Brave has gotten up to, with receipts rather than “Brave is spyware": https://thelibre.news/no-really-dont-use-brave/.

Personally, I see a pattern of continually engaging in underhanded and rent-seeking behavior that does not align with its stated goal of ensuring user privacy. Because I see a pattern of trying things to see what they can get away with, I lack any trust in their future behavior and have no desire to use software that I feel I have to maintain constant vigilance over what changes they’re making from release to release.

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 03:18 collapse

I totally get your point about not wanting to use Brave for ethical and moral reasons, but considering I haven’t seen any issues lately regarding a lack of privacy or honesty from the devs, I’m actually really comfortable where I’m at.

sulfidedisburseangledafternoontipper@piefed.blahaj.zone on 30 Mar 03:28 collapse

It’s not just about moral reasons (although I would write them off for moral reasons alone, to be clear). Brave as a browser has a history of making privacy worse- see, for example, disabling advance anti-fingerprinting in 2024 and their piss-poor tor implementation in 2021. Your initial comment had said you hadn’t seen anything since 2018 and maybe you like the browser enough to not care about their history of careless implementations of privacy features or their limiting of user choice on fingerprinting protections, but I don’t see how these objections can be dismissed as not relating to privacy.

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 03:40 collapse

They really do involve privacy, just like how Brave used Google as its default search engine when it was first created, but that changed over time, just as the things you mentioned are from 2018 and 2024 (8 and 2 years ago).

non_burglar@lemmy.world on 30 Mar 15:30 collapse

So let me get this straight: you are concerned about Google’s overreach into your privacy rights, but you are defending Brave browser, who has a history of deceiving users with claims of privacy, literally trying to mine shitcoins on your device, and promoting ads for certain affiliates without telling anyone?

Either you are a paid troll or incredibly naive.

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 18:26 collapse

List which privacy promises Brave has failed to keep.

non_burglar@lemmy.world on 30 Mar 19:50 collapse

This isn’t even a complete list. Are you starting to see why Brave and deGoogle don’t go together yet?

  1. Brave promised to remove banner ads from websites, but didn’t disclose that they were going to replace them their own add. 2016
  2. Brave attempted to solicit donations on behalf of creators without informing them. 2018
  3. Brave was caught their own injecting affiliate codes (like the Honey controversy). 2020
  4. brave.com/introducing-sponsored-images-in-brave/. 2020
  5. Leaking TOR DNS queries. 2021
  6. Brave tried to act on disabling a user’s ability to disable sponsored messages. 2022
  7. Brave browser found to be installing a (paid) VPN client on user machines without user consent. 2023
  8. Brave browser found to be scraping and selling user data. 2023
  9. Brave stopped offering fingerprinting resistance. 2024.
  10. Brave tried to promote their own “adblock testing” site and claim that other solar sites essentially didn’t work. 2025
  11. Brave shifts their tokemized reward system to require users to pay Solana to start “earning” BAT. 2025
Citrus_Cartographer@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 00:08 collapse

I’m assuming this is a list you copied from somewhere else, most of these are not privacy issues.

  1. Is a privacy issue and definitely concerning. It was fixed a little over a month after the issue report:
    github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/13527

There is a more recent issue where DNS is leaking if your Shield settings are set to “Aggressive” for trackers & ads blocking:
github.com/brave/brave-browser/issues/48947

1,2,3,4,6,7,8,10,11 are not privacy related issues.

  1. I don’t think you read, or understood the article, because your summary is not what’s happening there. In that article a website owner is complaining that Brave is scraping their website and using the content to feed some database for LLM training.

  2. I was confused about because your summary is incorrect (again). Brave does still block fingerprinting, but according to that article they removed the “strict” level blocking because too many sites broke.

non_burglar@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 15:13 collapse

Interesting that you didn’t respond to the other points. Anyway, I don’t give a shit what people do on their devices, ultimately. Brave has shown itself to not be a trustworthy player many times, yet you folks still just drink the koolaid. I have no idea why Brave’s marketing gets you every time when the reality is they are out to make profit at the expense of the user.

Citrus_Cartographer@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 17:23 collapse

It’s not that interesting, I just pointed out that they don’t have much to do with what the other user was asking for. They can respond to those other points if they want to.

For a recap, you mentioned:

Brave browser, who has a history of deceiving users with claims of privacy, literally trying to mine shitcoins on your device, and promoting add for certain affiliates without telling anuone?

The other user asked you to:

List which privacy promises Brave has failed to keep.

You responded with a list of 11 items. Only 3 were initially privacy related. 2 of those 3 you changed the headline to make a false claim. 1 of those turned out to not even be a privacy issue (after actually reading the source).

If you want to convince Brave users to not use Brave, you’ll want to make sure that your arguments are valid and that you’ve actually read and understood the sources you’re pointing to.

I even provided you with a current/active DNS leak issue that you can use.

non_burglar@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 18:49 collapse

Right, I’ll take correction on any inaccuracies, and I should read more attentively.

Let’s set aside privacy as a premise.

I’m trying to understand why Brave, who for the last 10 years has been caught time and time again in “oops, we forgot to tell you” moments is so popular with many folks seeking alternatives to chrome and ff. And some of these admissions by Brave are pretty serious, too.

Is it the marketing?

Citrus_Cartographer@lemmy.world on 01 Apr 03:40 collapse

Well, you have to remember that we are in an echo chamber here in the Fediverse.

I think the easiest way to explain this is with an example that might put you in their shoes for a bit. Ask yourself this, what would it take for someone to convince you to switch from using Lemmy to using something else like Mbin/PieFed? Where is the line you draw on what the developers say or do that would cause you to make that change? (Rhetorical questions).

Everyone has different values and different lines that can be crossed. For some, if the developers even hinted at support for a particular belief, they would immediately drop the software and find something else. For others, they might disagree with the developer’s opinions/actions but since they’re using Lemmy.World, they’re not directly supporting the developers anyway, so they’ll continue using Lemmy as long as it’s not under the dev’s instance. And then there are others who will somewhat or even strongly agree with the dev’s opinions/actions.

I would argue that only a small minority of users would fall under the category that would completely drop using Lemmy. At that point, the only factor that most others really care about (for switching) might be for better features or ease of use. So, unless the devs did or said something far worse to the point that it crosses the line for most users, bringing up the same points isn’t going to change the mind of most users.

Now apply this to browsers. The vast majority of people will prefer features/convenience/familiarity over the opinions/actions of one developer vs another developer as long as certain lines aren’t crossed (again, what that line is will be different for everyone).

Some users will be in the camp that, if any software even touches LLMs, Crypto, etc. then they won’t use the software. They hold those values as high as they do privacy/security which is why they would use something like LibreWolf instead of Brave.

Most users would probably not have strong enough opinions one way or another on Crypto, LLMs, etc. (the other concerns you raised) to let that factor too much into their final decision.

Even for the ones who disagree with it, as long as those options are disabled by default, easy to disable, or as long as they aren’t directly supporting them, then this would still factor lower on their final decision for which software to use.

Marketing definitely plays a big part. Doing a quick search for “compare privacy related browsers” leads to a bunch of articles that usually rank Brave very high. Additionally, the vast majority of users are going to stick with something that’s familiar to them and already has the features they’re used to.

Privacy reasons aside, most people are going to stick with what’s familiar to them, and the vast majority of users are already using some sort of Chromium browser.


My apologies for the wall of text, I found your comment interesting. Most of this I’m sure you already know. I just wanted to explore the subject a bit more, so I got my thoughts out.

Skv@lemmy.world on 30 Mar 21:16 next collapse

If its free - you are the product. Always.

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 31 Mar 00:01 collapse

Honestly, that mindset is way too narrow. For instance, companies and services like GrapheneOS, Fossify, Proton services, and many others are free or have free versions, but that doesn’t mean they’re selling your info to aliens from Mars or whatever. They might be supported by donations (like GrapheneOS and Fossify) or have paid versions of the product (like Proton and Tutanota services). Either way, saying “if you’re not paying for something, you’re the product” as if it applies every single time is a really outdated way of thinking.

Skv@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 01:55 collapse

Did you see Rossman’s vids on Graphene creator and the huge nutjob that he is?

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 31 Mar 02:02 collapse

No

Skv@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 17:33 collapse

Go look those up. Rossman was a proponent and pushing this OS until he had a couple chats with its creator and all hell broke loose.

entwine@programming.dev on 31 Mar 15:34 collapse

Brendan Eich is Palantir CEO and Jeffrey Epstein associate Peter Thiel’s friend and business partner.

Even ignoring the shady/questionable stuff Brave has done on its own wrt to crypto and advertising, you gotta be a special kind of stupid to know about the Thiel connection and believe Brave is a trustworthy browser.

Switch to Fennec, LibreWolf, or any of the dozens of Firefox forks out there.

RiQuY@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 03:02 collapse
ScoffingLizard@lemmy.dbzer0.com on 30 Mar 06:26 next collapse

What launcher is that?

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 22:44 collapse

Smart launcher

Zweiblum@feddit.org on 30 Mar 07:01 next collapse

I love that OP got more hate for using brave than tiktok :D . Anyway good job and happy degoogling :)

eneff@discuss.tchncs.de on 30 Mar 10:44 collapse

omg, you’re right!

degoogling but installing tiktok hahah

undefinedTruth@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 11:28 next collapse

SimpleLogin, Mullvad, Ente, Notesnook, Aegis, Bitwarden, ProtonMail… and fucking TikTok. Come on man, all that effort to improve your privacy and then you go and install literal spyware on your phone? At least isolate it on its own user profile if you really have to.

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 22:36 collapse

so how can I do that then??

undefinedTruth@lemmy.zip on 31 Mar 00:05 next collapse

You mean create a new user profile? Just follow the instructions here, that is how it works on AOSP and all ROMs that don’t diverge too much from it. Then just keep TikTok and only TikTok there, so it doesn’t have access to the rest of your data.

thermogel@lemmy.ml on 31 Mar 00:44 collapse

Check out Shelter on Fdroid, it creates a 2nd profile for compartmentalizing apps.

Try deleting TikTok and trying Loops, the fediverse alternative.

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 31 Mar 01:13 collapse

I’ve heard of this Fediverse thing but I don’t know what it is, can you tell me what it’s all about?

wilmo@lemmy.ml on 31 Mar 06:23 collapse

You’re on a part of it. Lemmy instances are a part of the fediverse. The idea is different social networks that can have cross communication. Decentralized as well.

Buage_@piefed.social on 31 Mar 07:41 collapse

Yea, for example you can comment a Lemmy post from Mastodon or any other social media that’s in the Fediverse

DrunkAnRoot@sh.itjust.works on 30 Mar 12:01 next collapse

all the work just for TT an roblox. side note if you didnt already you should disable internet perms on brawl stars

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 22:35 collapse

it doesn’t make much sense to disable internet permissions for brawl stars since it’s an online game, like, I really need that

DrunkAnRoot@sh.itjust.works on 30 Mar 22:36 collapse

ah i see sorry i wasnt to sure what it was. thought it was one those single player online games

pHr34kY@lemmy.world on 30 Mar 12:28 next collapse

K-9 got rebranded to Thunderbird. I see Mozilla are releasing K-9 at the same time, but I’m unsure why. Thunderbird is double the size so there must be some kind of difference

I’ve found that I too had to keep Google Play Store because some apps complain if it goes missing. However I’ve blocked network access for it (something GrapheneOS can do) and it’s effectively cut off from the mothership.

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 30 Mar 22:32 collapse

From what I understand, K-9 is smaller because Thunderbird has more telemetry.

pHr34kY@lemmy.world on 31 Mar 00:46 collapse

Neither have reported trackers on the Aurora store. But I would suspect it’s some kind of bloat. I’m sure it’s trivial to do an apk teardown and check the source code. I can’t be bothered though.

nuko147@lemmy.world on 30 Mar 20:27 next collapse

Change Brave with Ironfox (ublock origin extension) and you are ok.

hesh@quokk.au on 02 Apr 04:55 next collapse

Brave is Chrome, Chrome is Google

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 03 Apr 07:16 collapse

Brave is chromium* Chromium ≈ Google, but no = Google I switch for Fennec btw

Hobodata@lemmy.wtf on 03 Apr 10:35 next collapse

Wait I use fennec why didn’t you like it?

hesh@quokk.au on 03 Apr 10:40 collapse

Google has been proven to track users via chromium, so chromium is = Google

degooglerleon@lemmy.zip on 03 Apr 22:44 collapse

Chromium is a base provided by Google that’s used to build browsers, but people using it can just strip out the Google trackers from the code.

hesh@quokk.au on 04 Apr 00:57 collapse

Surely you can trust the closed source corporate crypto fork… Anyway, are ya trying to degoogle or aren’t ya? For me that means not using Google shit period. But to each his own.

afporritt1001@lemmy.today on 02 Apr 22:28 collapse

Delete TikTok